Re - Professor Herbert Leon MacDonell:

[David1819]

Hi David1819,

Yes, this is true, but what MacDonell did not know, was that there existed police messages confirming the presence of a female body in the kitchen from 7.35am, onwards. That female body could only have been reference to Sheila Caffells body.  I am confident in saying that if MacDonell had known about the existence of police message log contents, and other police material, suggesting that two bodies had been found upon entry to the kitchen, that he would almost certainly have concluded, as I do, that Jeremy Bamber had not shot dead his sister on the bedroom floor. I am 100% certain that in light of his findings, that he would have concluded that police shot and killed her (after 8.10am)...

The message logs you refer to have several plausible explanations.

A) Error in communication between officers and/or misunderstanding.

B) Sheila was seen alive. but mistaken for dead before she returns back upstairs.


Those that claim Sheila was murdered need to grapple with the testimony of Professor Knight and Vanezis below.



"Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back. There was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle."


This demonstrates that Sheila was sitting upwards on the floor while BOTH shots were inflicted. Not only that but they are both in an upwards trajectory. On top of that you have the absence of any defence wounds on Sheila in contrast to that of June or Neville. This proves Sheila took her own life. If someone else was involved she would have to have been highly complicit thus any second party would simply be assisting in the suicide.

Neville Bamber = All shots in a downward trajectory plus additional trauma and/or defence wounds.

June Bamber = All shots in a downward trajectory plus additional trauma and/or defence wounds(marks to her neck)

Sheila Caffell = All shots are contact wounds in an UPWARDS trajectory and NO additional trauma and/or defence wounds.

With the post-mortem hypostasis and lack rigour already ruling Jeremy out that only leaves the police and the police certainly do not have the brains to engineer this scene, nobody does. Thus Sheila took her own life.

[Stephanie]

I won't comment until you supply the facts

Why do you think he was downgraded on his category so quickly by experts

What are you on about; supply the facts? THe facts are there you just choose to ignore them.

Why do you think he was sent back to an A Cat and remains in an A Cat and will NEVER be released from an A Cat?

You see Jackie, the prison will know a lot more about Jeremy Bamber than what we do and what he would ever disclose. This is why he cherry picks what he puts into the public domain and why he withholds so much information about himself.

[Jane]

What are you on about; supply the facts? THe facts are there you just choose to ignore them.

Why do you think he was sent back to an A Cat and remains in an A Cat and will NEVER be released from an A Cat?

You see Jackie, the prison will know a lot more about Jeremy Bamber than what we do and what he would ever disclose. This is why he cherry picks what he puts into the public domain and why he withholds so much information about himself.

Sounds as if he may have found a way of making the prison system work in his favour.

[JackiePreece]

How is it totally different?

You say you are aware of these people; these people supported SH's innocence and fought to clear his name. What makes them different to me?

It's totally different

Simon had a background with convictions for violence

It didn't look like Simon Halls conviction was ever going to be overturned

I know so much about this case that makes me believe Jeremy's case will be overturned

My closest friend at works partner is someone who works in police corruption.  He has stated everyone knows Jeremy is innocent but their has been so much corruption around this case he personally does not think Jeremy will ever be released

This just confirms what I believe

[JackiePreece]

What are you on about; supply the facts? THe facts are there you just choose to ignore them.

Why do you think he was sent back to an A Cat and remains in an A Cat and will NEVER be released from an A Cat?

You see Jackie, the prison will know a lot more about Jeremy Bamber than what we do and what he would ever disclose. This is why he cherry picks what he puts into the public domain and why he withholds so much information about himself.

The prison were very keen to downgrade JB but this was overturned because the relatives complained

You said you can get the information regarding Jeremy being violent

I await this information with bated breath

[Stephanie]

The prison were very keen to downgrade JB but this was overturned because the relatives complained

You said you can get the information regarding Jeremy being violent

I await this information with bated breath

The information regarding Jeremy Bamber's violence is in the public domain, only you choose to ignore it.

Again you confuse me with yourself Jackie. I really am not that interested in learning all the details of Bambers violence, though if I were supporting his innocence I would be.

I'm not bothered by the fact you are waiting with bated breath. Wait away, I won't be providing anything. There's no need for me to do so. It's not me who is supporting him.

Why do you say the prison were keen...? These are your own words Jackie which make it appear there was more to it..

The prison wrongly downgraded Bambers security status and when they realised they were wrong, sent him back to a higher security prison.

SH died a D Cat prisoner. His confession in 2013 made no difference to what prison he was in. In fact the prison (Hollesley Bay) were prepared to keep SH in open conditions, provided he complete any further courses required of him.

I'm really not sure what the point of your argument is? The prison made a mistake and rectified said mistake. If your argument were to have any weight, I would have expected Jeremy to have served 25 years before being eligible for parole, as opposed to be given a full life tariff.

I am of the belief Bamber will never be released not just because of his crimes but because the prison know more about him than the public have been made aware of.

[Stephanie]

The prison were very keen to downgrade JB but this was overturned because the relatives complained

You said you can get the information regarding Jeremy being violent

I await this information with bated breath

I have come to learn that UK prisons often make the mistake of downgrading prisoners. Jeremy Bamber's situation would have been no different to all the other prisoners who were wrongly downgraded.

Prisoners are kept in certain prisons due to their risk factors i.e: risk of escape, risk to public etc.

I guarantee you Jackie there is information held on Jeremy's prison security file that he will not have disclosed to anyone, other than a solicitor if need be. And of course solicitors are under an oath to protect their clients.

Jeremy Bamber is in an A Cat prison for a reason.

As David learned yesterday, not all details are disclosed to the public, hence why there was no record of Jeremy's violent attack on another prisoner.

Following confession SH was told he would remain in open conditions. However, some months later he was transferred to closed conditions. According to prison records he had stated he would abscond and kill himself. The open prison were providing 24 hour care in custody. He was told Wayland prison had better facilities to care for him.

He was transferred back to a closed prison where 24 hour care was not available. At this point, he was at high risk of ending his life.

In the notes between the psychologist and NOMS it was suggested SH was no longer a D Cat prisoner but in the eyes of the law he was. No efforts were made by any prison staff to have SH's status downgraded. The fact he had disclosed by now an awful lot of disturbing information, had suggested he would abscond and the prison had changed his risk factors - he remained a D-Cat prisoner.

So even as recent as 2013 UK prisons were still making mistakes regarding a prisoners status and risk.

[Adam]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/572032/whole-life-sentence-prisoners-charles-bronson-jeremy-bamber-arthur-hutchinson-rose-west&ved=0ahUKEwi2taa_lJ7RAhXaO1AKHdp6CNMQqQIIGigBMAA&usg=AFQjCNGpw1R5XoFrxEt56bhc-CvmQeTb-w

How Bamber and co spent Christmas.


"Despite all the evidence pointing to sicko Bamber, he tried to pin the horrific crime on Sheila, who was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic".

As the article suggests, there is a mountain of forensic and circumstantial evidence against Bamber. The few remaining supporters who still have not changed stance, need to have another re think.

[Stephanie]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/572032/whole-life-sentence-prisoners-charles-bronson-jeremy-bamber-arthur-hutchinson-rose-west&ved=0ahUKEwi2taa_lJ7RAhXaO1AKHdp6CNMQqQIIGigBMAA&usg=AFQjCNGpw1R5XoFrxEt56bhc-CvmQeTb-w

How Bamber and co spent Christmas.


"Despite all the evidence pointing to sicko Bamber, he tried to pin the horrific crime on Sheila, who was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic".

As the article suggests, there is a mountain of forensic and circumstantial evidence against Bamber. The few remaining supporters who still have not changed stance, need to have another re think.

Some people will never admit to having made a mistake Adam.

Which further supports Jeremy Bamber's public support is practically non existent.


Published 26th DECEMBER 2016 - Referring to Bamber as a PSYCHOPATH


Jeremy Bamber was described as “warped” and “evil beyond belief” by trial judge Mr Justice Drake in 1986.

Bamber, 55, is notorious for carrying out the so-called Bambi Killings – the vicious slaughter of his entire family at their home in White House Farm, near Tolleshunt D’Arcy, in Essex.

Adopted Bamber, aged 24 at the time, took a semi-automatic rifle and gunned down mum and dad, Neville and June, as well as his sister, Sheila, and her two sons, Daniel and Nicholas.

Despite all the evidence pointing to sicko Bamber, he tried to pin the horrific crime on Sheila, who was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic.

But the jury saw through his web of lies and decided Bamber had carried out the twisted murders to get his hands on his family’s wealth.

Since his conviction, he has always claimed his innocence and launched multiple appeals.

In 1994, monster Bamber was told he would have to spend the rest of his life behind bars and will never be released.

[Stephanie]

I have come to learn that UK prisons often make the mistake of downgrading prisoners. Jeremy Bamber's situation would have been no different to all the other prisoners who were wrongly downgraded.

Prisoners are kept in certain prisons due to their risk factors i.e: risk of escape, risk to public etc.

I guarantee you Jackie there is information held on Jeremy's prison security file that he will not have disclosed to anyone, other than a solicitor if need be. And of course solicitors are under an oath to protect their clients.

Jeremy Bamber is in an A Cat prison for a reason.

As David learned yesterday, not all details are disclosed to the public, hence why there was no record of Jeremy's violent attack on another prisoner.

Following confession SH was told he would remain in open conditions. However, some months later he was transferred to closed conditions. According to prison records he had stated he would abscond and kill himself. The open prison were providing 24 hour care in custody. He was told Wayland prison had better facilities to care for him.

He was transferred back to a closed prison where 24 hour care was not available. At this point, he was at high risk of ending his life.

In the notes between the psychologist and NOMS it was suggested SH was no longer a D Cat prisoner but in the eyes of the law he was. No efforts were made by any prison staff to have SH's status downgraded. The fact he had disclosed by now an awful lot of disturbing information, had suggested he would abscond and the prison had changed his risk factors - he remained a D-Cat prisoner.

So even as recent as 2013 UK prisons were still making mistakes regarding a prisoners status and risk.

More importantly, what I do not understand is why people like Jackie are referring to Bamber's prison status and ignoring SH's prison status.

How did SH manage to fool all prison staff and indeed the parole board (No mental health issues - no personality disorder), get moved to open prison conditions, to then confess and disclose a large volume of information regarding his crime, some months later. These disclosures changed his risk factors.

To then end up in a closed prison (Still a D-Cat prisoner) having been then told at some point he would be moving to HMP Grendon. Risk factors increased but prison status remained the same

Why are people dismissing the above when it comes to Bamber?

Further, in February 2013 SH was given a temporary release on licence (ROTL) without a prison escort. In other words he was on his own outside of the prison How did all those agencies involved in SH's care in custody allow this to happen if he was a risk to the public, himself and known adults?

[Stephanie]

It's totally different Only if you choose to make it appear different

Simon had a background with convictions for violence Any sign of violence, whether past or present is a risk factor for future violence; especially if the person carrying out the violence has done nothing to recognise what triggers them to become violent and how to cope with these triggers

It didn't look like Simon Halls conviction was ever going to be overturned This is your opinion - Further, SH made it to open prison conditions due to his low risk factors and because of the courses he had completed, as well as good behaviour

I know so much about this case that makes me believe Jeremy's case will be overturned I also did in the SH case or thought I did

My closest friend at works partner is someone who works in police corruption.  He has stated everyone knows Jeremy is innocent but their has been so much corruption around this case he personally does not think Jeremy will ever be released I heard stories like this too regarding SH. I have evidence of a well known expert having put in writing to a solicitor of his beliefs re police corruption and forensics

This just confirms what I believe You are referring to confirmation bias: This is the tendency for people to seek out or interpret information so that it confirms their beliefs.

[Adam]

It may be a good idea to give Mike and Lookout the option of engaging with you via PM, prior to a stance change. As a stance change after years or decades is a big thing to do.

A lot of people changed stance after I joined. I should have been softer & only gave Lookout the chance to PM me after she dug in.

[Stephanie]

It may be a good idea to give Mike and Lookout the option of engaging with you via PM, prior to a stance change. As it's a big thing to do.

A lot of people changed stance after I joined. I should have been softer & only gave Lookout the chance to PM me after she dug in.

I don't believe they will ever change stance Adam; privately or otherwise. Nor am I concerned either way. It's up to others what beliefs they wish to hold. All we can do is give people the choice. Bamber isn't going anywhere.

Regarding my stance change in the SH case. SH confessed to the murder. His confession came as a shock but also explained his sudden and drastic change of behaviour following the Zenith burglary omission. Which at the time I mistakenly put down to PTSD having recently learned he was moving to an open prison (He moved less than a month of the omission).

I had a choice when SH confessed. I could deny his confession or admit I had been conned.

Many others chose to publicly deny the confession and in so doing, imo, these people gave an insight into their personas and indeed wisdom/knowledge or lack of.

[Stephanie]

Sounds as if he may have found a way of making the prison system work in his favour.

And that's exactly what many prisoners do Jane. The prison system is flawed. And until such time that these flaws are addressed, prisoners will continue to exploit the system.

[Stephanie]

The message logs you refer to have several plausible explanations.

A) Error in communication between officers and/or misunderstanding.

B) Sheila was seen alive. but mistaken for dead before she returns back upstairs.


Those that claim Sheila was murdered need to grapple with the testimony of Professor Knight and Vanezis below.



"Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back. There was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle."


This demonstrates that Sheila was sitting upwards on the floor while BOTH shots were inflicted. Not only that but they are both in an upwards trajectory. On top of that you have the absence of any defence wounds on Sheila in contrast to that of June or Neville. This proves Sheila took her own life. If someone else was involved she would have to have been highly complicit thus any second party would simply be assisting in the suicide.

Neville Bamber = All shots in a downward trajectory plus additional trauma and/or defence wounds.

June Bamber = All shots in a downward trajectory plus additional trauma and/or defence wounds(marks to her neck)

Sheila Caffell = All shots are contact wounds in an UPWARDS trajectory and NO additional trauma and/or defence wounds.

With the post-mortem hypostasis and lack rigour already ruling Jeremy out that only leaves the police and the police certainly do not have the brains to engineer this scene, nobody does. Thus Sheila took her own life.

= Confirmation bias

You see David, you have failed to explain away the other facts being pointed out to a regular basis.

Your confirmation bias is clear for all to see. Your arguments aren't consistent. You cherry pick pieces of evidence you can put your own slant on but what you fail to do is the same with ALL the evidence. Your arguments are inconsistent and weak.