Author Topic: New proposed account of how Sheila could have committed the massacre:  (Read 14014 times)

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Offline Caroline

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I don't know. Maybe she stubbed her toe. Wasn't it red nail varnish as opposed to a piece of nail?

It was described as a 'red particle' by Suthurst and he 'theorised' that it may have come from Sheila's toe nail. However, he later said that it could have come from anywhere. It was never proven to be nail varnish - this is just a myth.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Steve_uk

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It was described as a 'red particle' by Suthurst and he 'theorised' that it may have come from Sheila's toe nail. However, he later said that it could have come from anywhere. It was never proven to be nail varnish - this is just a myth.
It's interesting nonetheless. When I was talking about cut and paste I wasn't including your brilliant I.T. skills Caroline.

Offline Roch

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It was described as a 'red particle' by Suthurst and he 'theorised' that it may have come from Sheila's toe nail. However, he later said that it could have come from anywhere. It was never proven to be nail varnish - this is just a myth.

I quite liked Sutherst.  He seemed like kind of bloke who would reach in to his pocket and hand you a Werther's Original.  Pity he overstepped his remit with his remarks about an 'innocent man in prison'. Regardless of the scratch-marks fiasco, Mike Tesko once said Sutherst helped the defence understand the sequence of photography.  I've always wanted to know more about this (I.e. Sutherst's opinion of the sequence) but I don't agree with Mike about his repeated claims, regarding the rifle photographed at the window.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 10:07:PM by Roch »

Offline lookout

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I wonder if the " meeting " ever took place on the night before the murders took place ? This meeting had been arranged between Betty Howie and Pam,with June obviously being present. It was in regard to Sheila's health and future plans.
I remember it being listed as note 1212 T ?

Offline Adam

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I was waiting for your account David, not some cut and paste drivel from someone whom I don't know. How on earth a Sheila in that state of Tardive Dyskinesia can overpower five people reloading a rifle in the process is beyond me.

You have all been hoisted on your own petard.

David did give an account, which is on page 1. But did not adress any of my 15 points. Or provide the evidence that there was no kitchen fight which was a committment made in reply 15.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 09:26:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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We are being spoiled with new scenarios -

"Sheila was not up all night, she went to bed as usual.
However, she felt her period begin, and rose to deal with it.
Finding significant blood staining, she went to the kitchen with her knickers and filled a new bucket with water to soak the garment.
She made enough noise, filling it, or putting the heavy bucket on the floor, to alert Nevill, who at 3 am not only was alarmed sufficiently by noise to investigate a possible intruder, but remembered that gun in the kitchen.

At this point I will remind everyone of a representative passage from Carol Anne Lee.

‘We had coffee at the kitchen table, just the three of us. Sheila was at the head, opposite the door, where she usually sat, I was on her left and her mother was on her right. For a while she just sat there, looking very weak. Mrs Bamber and I were chatting and suddenly Sheila said: “All people are bad and deserve to be killed.” She just came out with it. But she wasn’t herself anyway. Her eyes would look right past you. I only saw her once more after that. I was indoors, watching her cross the yard. The geese were about – perishing things, they used to cackle and chase people. But on this particular occasion I saw Sheila walking across the yard, her body and legs very stiff, staring straight ahead. She moved through the geese as if they weren’t there.’

This is the Sheila of mid 1986, taciturn, catatonic, alarming.

What occurred in that kitchen is speculative, but Jeremy has told us of the fractious conversations earlier in the evening.
How did going crazy manifest itself, was there much said? Clues can be wrested from the fact June never woke up again.
There was not enough to wake the "light sleeping" June, though 3 am is a time when sleep is now deep.
As Sheila glides up the stairs Nevill is phoning Jeremy. He takes a while to answer , and by the time he does, Sheila has figured how to load that gun, and the shooting begins.
Nevill gets to the top of the stairs, and takes those terrible and debilitating wounds to his face, turns, and as the last two bullets catch his left arm from behind, slithers to his resting place in the coal scuttle. Sheila beats him or reloads to finish. It is irrelevant what injuries besides gun shots were inflicted, she is capable of everything without a blemish to her person.

This account fits the known evidence, Jeremy in Goldhanger, June asleep, Nevill being disabled with gravity to assist to his resting place, no controversy about a phone call by an injured man, no bikes or wetsuits, no clothes to disappear, no shots by another to an awake human being matching suicide trajectory.

Absent a point by point counter to this with sensible and considered reason, I will contact the Home Office and resolve the WHF mystery for them".
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 09:49:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Agree Sheila went to bed. As evidenced by being in a nightdress and bare footed when found, the time of night and that June told another person Sheila had gone to bed. 

Was Sheila on her period ? I would have expected her to put on footware and a nightdress if going downstairs in the dark.  Did she have underware under her nightdress when found by the police ? Was it her underware in the bucket ?

If Neville heard Sheila downstairs, would he have not put on footware and a dressing gown before going downstairs ? Why didn't June wake ?

There is then no description of what then occurred downstairs. Just that Neville ended up phoning Bamber and said 11 words to him. Sheila loaded a rifle (which was already loaded). June, (a light sleeper) did not wake and Sheila was allowed to go upstairs with the rifle. Nevill did not tackle Sheila at all while downstairs, prefering to ring up Bamber.

It seems to be saying that Nevill was shot first after he went upstairs. Having apparently  not seen Sheila take a loaded rifle and go upstairs. This contradicts him saying 'Sheila's gone crazy and she's got the gun' to Bamber. 

If Nevill was shot first, Sheila had 11 bullets to play with, but only fired 4 into him before having the brutal fight.

This description rules out Nevill phoning Chelmsford police. Something two other supporters have also recently ruled out. Hopefully all other supporters will now dismiss this ridiculous claim.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 02:38:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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I wonder if the " meeting " ever took place on the night before the murders took place ? This meeting had been arranged between Betty Howie and Pam,with June obviously being present. It was in regard to Sheila's health and future plans.
I remember it being listed as note 1212 T ?





So no further advance on the above then ? Thought not----not interested.

Offline Caroline

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So no further advance on the above then ? Thought not----not interested.

Advance on what? I've never heard of any such meeting and you don't have a link to the letter.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Advance on what? I've never heard of any such meeting and you don't have a link to the letter.




I was just wondering who did know seeing that it had a referral number--- part of an exhibit ? It was mentioned/posted on the forum in 2011 somewhere and I had a vague recollection of it,but no info as such apart from the said content re.a meeting.

Offline exrider123

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David's quote from Samson is very interesting & gives much food for thought.
However, I haven't come across IA. Is this a widely accessed forum?
 Can any one assist?









Offline jon

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David's quote from Samson is very interesting & gives much food for thought.
However, I haven't come across IA. Is this a widely accessed forum?
 Can any one assist?
injustice anywhere .

Offline notsure

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I quite liked Sutherst.  He seemed like kind of bloke who would reach in to his pocket and hand you a Werther's Original.  Pity he overstepped his remit with his remarks about an 'innocent man in prison'. Regardless of the scratch-marks fiasco, Mike Tesko once said Sutherst helped the defence understand the sequence of photography.  I've always wanted to know more about this (I.e. Sutherst's opinion of the sequence) but I don't agree with Mike about his repeated claims, regarding the rifle photographed at the window.

agreed roch, I would like to know more on the sequence of photos and I have a feeling that maybe the ct are looking at that further. I liked him too, he has a wealth of experience and I believe his findings haven't been looked into in enough detail. He came across as a gentleman didn't he .

Offline Caroline

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I was just wondering who did know seeing that it had a referral number--- part of an exhibit ? It was mentioned/posted on the forum in 2011 somewhere and I had a vague recollection of it,but no info as such apart from the said content re.a meeting.

I tried searching the forum but can't find anything. Will try later.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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I tried searching the forum but can't find anything. Will try later.




It would be interesting to find out if this meeting had taken place-----the evening before the murders.