Author Topic: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?  (Read 19728 times)

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Offline Romeo

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #75 on: November 14, 2016, 10:46:PM »
Was Jeremy bisexual, or more pertinently in my view did his sexual proclivities condition his actions in the slaying of five individuals?  After Jeremy's insecurity and loneliness throughout his youth he was left feeling that worth was measured in monetary terms, an idea reinforced when he offered lifts to Sixth Form Chelmsford students and earned their warmth and gratitude in return.

What is more difficult to discern is whether Jeremy ever loved anyone in this life, and we could even consider whether his natural parents would have been the recipient of his love had he never been given up for adoption.  Was Suzette any more preferable to Julie, Brett, the BOAC air stewards or the threesomes he indulged in at Bourtree Cottage during this relatively brief period of untrammelled licentiousness, or was this surfeit of hedonism engendered by the strict school rules of Gresham's and the lack of opportunities formerly at home? Did Jeremy deliberately reject June's moral code, remembering perhaps part of her tutelage on sex education when he told girlfriends "let's make babies", realizing the import of those words only when Suzette failed him in this regard?  Did he know what love meant as he bought Julie chocolates and roses at the Bridal Suite of the Hilton Hotel, or did he simply wish to impress if not with his body then with his wallet?

Brett Collins represents the chancer, the predatory homosexual who would sweet talk to fulfil his sexual desires, confined only to men, and whilst Jeremy had the same lustful impulses with Anji Greaves and now the wherewithal to indulge them he did not deliberately set out to attract the same sex, though flattered by the attention he received, so desperately lacking at home. He moved from blonde to brunette back to blonde, but it was Julie who remained the stooge throughout. He used Brett for his antiques knowledge, but that was the limit to any mental involvement with the character, and with Nevill and June now dead as soon as the family heirlooms were valued his usefulness was coming to an end.

Now that explains it clearer than I could, and answers my question  ;)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 10:49:PM by Romeo »

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #76 on: November 15, 2016, 12:49:PM »
If he is then could this have affected his relationship with his religious parents. Could this be why he hated Gresham's Boarding School.....Brett Collins stated JB was abused at school when 11 years old. ...and went on to blame his parents and have Gay affairs.  If JB is bisexual, and hadn't 'come out' could he have become depressed at not being able to lead his life the way he wanted to?? Clare Powell's book tells us after the murders JB dressed up in his dead sisters clothes.

Interestingly transvestitism is listed as a paraphilia in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of
Mental Disorders) and whilst dressing in women's clothes doesn't make someone a murderer, I imagine it's of interest in relation to criminal profiling and/or forensic psychology.

This article suggests "when a person is unable to obtain sexual arousal and satisfaction without the paraphilic stimuli and fantasy, this behaviour is considered pathological. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dDOW75aJMR8C&pg=PA434&lpg=PA434&dq=paraphilias+and+murder&source=bl&ots=sv4IrM8aDj&sig=ttd7MXF5QZuK5WjoAYF1LFrmB6I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL_JWk6qrQAhWoDMAKHZnsDYYQ6AEIVzAH#v=onepage&q=paraphilias%20and%20murder&f=false

According to disclosures made by SH he too dressed in his mothers clothing (Along with other paraphilias).

http://jaapl.org/content/jaapl/16/2/153.full.pdf

And ego dystonic homosexuality is a psychosexual disorder in which an individual has persistent distress associated with same-sex preference and is unable to initiate or maintain heterosexual relationships, usually experiencing a strong need to change the behavior or, at least, to alleviate the distress associated with the homosexual preference.

http://members.shaw.ca/pdg/ego-dystonic-homosexuality.html

"The physical evidence collected at a crime scene provides clues that are imperative for the solution of the case, but the psychological clues are of equal value to the investigator. Signs of the murderers personality left at the crime scene are of profound importance, suggesting identifiable patterns of behaviour based on deep seated psychological needs. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dDOW75aJMR8C&pg=PA434&lpg=PA434&dq=paraphilias+and+murder&source=bl&ots=sv4IrM8aDj&sig=ttd7MXF5QZuK5WjoAYF1LFrmB6I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL_JWk6qrQAhWoDMAKHZnsDYYQ6AEIVzAH#v=onepage&q=paraphilias%20and%20murder&f=false

"Sexual sadism is another listed paraphilia.
"Sexual sadists are sexually aroused by causing pain or humiliation to another person. Usually this starts as a pleasurable fantasy which eventually progresses to actually acting those fantasies out with another person. The other person may or may not be a consenting participant. The sadistic behavior often includes burning, cutting or scratching, whipping, choking, or biting.

When this is a sex addiction, sadists need to increase the amount of pain they cause in order to feel sexually satisfied. This may lead to violent acts including torture, rape, and murder. The victims may be adults, as well as children, adolescents, and even animals.
http://www.hypersexualdisorders.com/sex-addiction/paraphilias-and-sex-addiction/

The following link may be of interest (The development of the sexually sadistic serial killer) http://jaapl.org/content/jaapl/25/3/335.full.pdf

Has anyone ever explored the possibility that Bamber's motives may have also included sexual sadism?

"R.P. Brittain, a British psychiatrist, posits that sadistic murderers are typically shy, withdrawn, quiet and mild-mannered. Most sexual sadists are men and the majority are white. Most have achieved no more than a high school education. Many are habitual abusers of alcohol or other drugs. Surprisingly many have served in the Armed Forces. More shocking is that a majority of the offenders were married at the time of the offense. Many sexual sadists have also had experience with many forms of sexual deviation such as cross-dressing https://theaimless.wordpress.com/2013/09/23/investigating-sexual-sadism-and-murder/
"Another disturbing characteristic of sexual sadists are their overblown egos. Many even though they are average in appearance show extreme confidence in themselves after being apprehended. Offenders often have an exaggerated self-image and consider themselves intellectually superior to the police. They believe they are in no danger of divulging crucial information about themselves. When sadistic murderers are arrested, Brittain notes, they continue to display little tension or guilt.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 02:57:PM by Stephanie »
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Offline Romeo

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #77 on: November 15, 2016, 05:19:PM »
Has anyone ever explored the possibility that Bamber's motives may have also included sexual sadism?

No Stephanie I haven't, but thanks for the links. I read in the books on the murders, or could have been statements Julie Mugford made, where she spoke about her sex life with Jeremy......I'll try to find it again.

Offline lookout

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #78 on: November 15, 2016, 05:29:PM »
Blimey,whatever next  ::)

Offline lookout

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #79 on: November 15, 2016, 05:32:PM »
There's nothing I like more than these posts from " squeaky-clean " posters. :o

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #80 on: November 15, 2016, 05:44:PM »
Blimey,whatever next  ::)

How would you describe the White-house murders if not sadistic Lookout?

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Offline Stephanie

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #81 on: November 15, 2016, 05:45:PM »
There's nothing I like more than these posts from " squeaky-clean " posters. :o

Unsure what your post means Lookout?
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Offline David1819

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #82 on: November 15, 2016, 05:50:PM »
Blimey,whatever next  ::)

Exactly. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.  ::)

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #83 on: November 15, 2016, 05:59:PM »
Exactly. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.  ::)

How is exploring someones psychological make-up scraping the bottom of the barrel? 

"The physical evidence collected at a crime scene provides clues that are imperative for the solution of the case, but the psychological clues are of equal value to the investigator. Signs of the murderers personality left at the crime scene are of profound importance, suggesting identifiable patterns of behaviour based on deep seated psychological needs.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dDOW75aJMR8C&pg=PA434&lpg=PA434&dq=paraphilias+and+murder&source=bl&ots=sv4IrM8aDj&sig=ttd7MXF5QZuK5WjoAYF1LFrmB6I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL_JWk6qrQAhWoDMAKHZnsDYYQ6AEIVzAH#v=onepage&q=paraphilias%20and%20murder&f=false

None of us know Bambers sexual identity. If, for example, he was abused at the tender age of 11 years old I fail to see how this abuse could not have had an impact on his psychological development.

Whilst he maybe bi-sexual there's also a possibility his homosexual relationships were of a ego dystonic homosexual nature.

"The crime scene becomes the arena in which killers can perform, perfect, and relieve their fantasies by acting out in ways that are unique to their psychological needs. Thus, crime scene behaviour is an absolute, constant reflection of the violent and sadistic desires of each killer. Any brutal and destructive action at the crime scene beyond that which is necessary to complete the act of killing is considered signature killing https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dDOW75aJMR8C&pg=PA434&lpg=PA434&dq=paraphilias+and+murder&source=bl&ots=sv4IrM8aDj&sig=ttd7MXF5QZuK5WjoAYF1LFrmB6I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL_JWk6qrQAhWoDMAKHZnsDYYQ6AEIVzAH#v=onepage&q=paraphilias%20and%20murder&f=false

« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 06:29:PM by Stephanie »
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Offline lookout

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #84 on: November 15, 2016, 06:22:PM »
If JB had spoken as Sheila had done when she'd referred to her own sons in a sexual manner,then I'd understand the thread.
 It was Sheila's behaviour which was questionable,not Jeremy's. Utterly sick. She was one mixed-up woman

 

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #85 on: November 15, 2016, 06:28:PM »
If JB had spoken as Sheila had done when she'd referred to her own sons in a sexual manner,then I'd understand the thread.
 It was Sheila's behaviour which was questionable,not Jeremy's. Utterly sick. She was one mixed-up woman

If we are to believe the above Lookout - where is the psychological evidence at the crime scene?

"The crime scene becomes the arena in which killers can perform, perfect, and relieve their fantasies by acting out in ways that are unique to their psychological needs. Thus, crime scene behaviour is an absolute, constant reflection of the violent and sadistic desires of each killer. Any brutal and destructive action at the crime scene beyond that which is necessary to complete the act of killing is considered signature killing https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dDOW75aJMR8C&pg=PA434&lpg=PA434&dq=paraphilias+and+murder&source=bl&ots=sv4IrM8aDj&sig=ttd7MXF5QZuK5WjoAYF1LFrmB6I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL_JWk6qrQAhWoDMAKHZnsDYYQ6AEIVzAH#v=onepage&q=paraphilias%20and%20murder&f=false
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 06:30:PM by Stephanie »
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #86 on: November 15, 2016, 06:37:PM »
If JB had spoken as Sheila had done when she'd referred to her own sons in a sexual manner,then I'd understand the thread.
 It was Sheila's behaviour which was questionable,not Jeremy's. Utterly sick. She was one mixed-up woman

It appears however that you have misinterpreted my posts. I am not referring to sexual attraction (Nor of someone speaking of another in a sexual manner) I am referring to the act of murder and how some murderers are sexually aroused by the act of ending the life of another. Whilst that in itself is indeed 'utterly sick' to normal thinking individuals; the same cannot be said for many murderers.

"There is a great deal of controversy concerning paraphilia, and defining what is normal versus deviant or disordered behavior. In part, this stems from the malleability of sexual norms across time and cultures, which creates problems for those defining and diagnosing paraphilia. Given that, in some circumstances, such diagnoses can be used to imprison and/or commit an individual based on their future likely danger to society, this adds another dimension to this problem. In this article we outline these issues and describe recent progress in diagnosing and treating paraphilias. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769077/
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 06:45:PM by Stephanie »
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Offline Romeo

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #87 on: November 15, 2016, 06:47:PM »
Good Post Stephanie!

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #88 on: November 15, 2016, 07:01:PM »
Good Post Stephanie!

Below has been copied from OS: https://jeremybamber.org/the-inheritance-issue/



"It is important to look at the Bamber case against the background of these cultural and social values.  Let us note that Jeremy Bamber had homosexual friends, as much as you or I would in today’s society, and thus it was speculated that he was bisexual.  I have already touched on Ann Eaton’s and Robert Boutflour’s bigoted attitude to homosexuality.  The police had similar attitudes, Sue Ford said the police and press persisted in pursuing the line of enquiry that Jeremy was homosexual.[1]  There are also handwritten actions including those by DS Stan Jones where he makes reference to Brett Collins: “Looks Like a poof.”[2]  Throughout DI Ainsley’s reports of 7th November 1985 and 23rd of September 85, he addresses the issue of the homosexuality of Jeremy’s friends, and airs his own suspicions that Jeremy might have been homosexual. The reports are littered with references to this, but he fails to make any correlation between Jeremy’s association with homosexuals and the shootings. It appears that two dynamics were going on.  Firstly, that accounts of Jeremy’s sexuality were purely speculative on the part of witnesses and police officers based upon Jeremy’s friendships with homosexual men. Secondly, that homosexuality was viewed by police and conventional culture, as linked in some way to “criminality” and furtherWhat would be the relevance of Jeremy’s sexuality upon the case in question as there was no sexual or homosexual element to the crimes?

If Jeremy was having a sexual relationship with another man or indeed a woman other than Julie, all this would illustrate was Jeremy’s infidelity and might or might not give some reflection as to his character. Equally it would still have no bearing on the crime in consideration. Many documents have colloquial language for the term homosexuality. Let me give you some examples of the reports where, the correct terminology was used but in a negative context.  This excludes reports such as that prepared by DI Dickinson which is also littered with references to homosexual activity. For example in Ainsley’s two short reports of 1985. Here are some references:

“He fell in with criminal and Homosexual company” 

“He met the witness Brett Collins who is homosexual”

Mugford claimed that Jeremy had openly admitted to her “at least one homosexual relationship”

Mugford claimed that Jeremy had been to “New Zealand and there had some type of homosexual relationship with a man named Jeff it is also at this time that he met Brett Collins.” 

 “It was on the 13th of August that Brett Collins, the Homosexual friend of Jeremy’s who had stayed with Jeremy prior to August 1985, returned from a holiday in Greece.”

“It is said that there he fell in with criminal and homosexual company.” 

“He is considered by some who know him to be bisexual” 

“Always looking for affection, especially from girls, a bisexual, a shallow person” 

“He is also an admitted homosexual.” (re: Collins) 

“In addition, Bamber himself is believed to have been involved in other homosexual associations.”

There is more evidence, documents go on to state that Julie had, “said Jeremy was gay,”[3] and further in 1991 DI Hammett describes his lunch with Robert Boutflour and notes that he had remarked on Jeremy’s “un-savoury homosexual character” and that he was seen out “with a feather in his ear.”[4] I have only touched on some examples of these attitudes amongst the case documents. There are many more examples but there is not the space to cover this comprehensively.

If indeed it was important to mention that Collins or Jeremy might have been homosexual perhaps just one mention might have sufficed. One might argue that the police had tried to establish a sexual relationship between Jeremy and Brett to uncover if they had been involved in the shootings together, (Brett was out of the UK at the time) so there was no no evidence of this.  Brett told police in a statement that although he was homosexual he had never had a sexual relationship with Jeremy, while Jeremy himself denied anything other than a close, affectionate friendship with Collins.  Collins did have a criminal record for the very minor offences like possession of cannabis.[5]

Even if Jeremy Bamber were a self confessed homosexual it remains to be seen how this connects with the tragedies at White House Farm. As recently as 2004 Jeremy was depicted in a documentary as a homosexual and a transvestite on a tractor. It is clear that questions over Jeremy’s sexuality have persistently been used to persecute him and government bodies set up to regulate this have done nothing. I suggest, based on the documental evidence, that police had disliked Jeremy’s personal associations and so did his extended family and girlfriend. Bearing in mind that homosexuality had only been decriminalised 18 years previously, this evidence illustrates nothing more than the persecution of a man who was believed to be part of an unpopular minority group. There was an essential determination to tie Jeremy into this group because homosexuals were considered by many traditionalists as fitting into the same category as criminals.

[1] 16.09.86 Statement, Suzette Ford

[2] Holmes 45/22 Miller Handwritten Actions

[3] Master Schedule detail Box 10/308

[4] Holmes 24/61 DI Hammett Report, 1991 & Holmes 7:33 pg 10 R, Boutflour

[5] Criminal Record background check New Zealand Police
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 07:06:PM by Stephanie »
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: Is Jeremy Bamber Bisexual?
« Reply #89 on: November 15, 2016, 07:04:PM »
Below has been copied from OS: https://jeremybamber.org/the-inheritance-issue/



"It is important to look at the Bamber case against the background of these cultural and social values.  Let us note that Jeremy Bamber had homosexual friends, as much as you or I would in today’s society, and thus it was speculated that he was bisexual.  I have already touched on Ann Eaton’s and Robert Boutflour’s bigoted attitude to homosexuality.  The police had similar attitudes, Sue Ford said the police and press persisted in pursuing the line of enquiry that Jeremy was homosexual.[1]  There are also handwritten actions including those by DS Stan Jones where he makes reference to Brett Collins: “Looks Like a poof.”[2]  Throughout DI Ainsley’s reports of 7th November 1985 and 23rd of September 85, he addresses the issue of the homosexuality of Jeremy’s friends, and airs his own suspicions that Jeremy might have been homosexual.  The reports are littered with references to this, but he fails to make any correlation between Jeremy’s association with homosexuals and the shootings.  It appears that two dynamics were going on.  Firstly, that accounts of Jeremy’s sexuality were purely speculative on the part of witnesses and police officers based upon Jeremy’s friendships with homosexual men. Secondly, that homosexuality was viewed by police and conventional culture, as linked in some way to “criminality” and further – What would be the relevance of Jeremy’s sexuality upon the case in question as there was no sexual or homosexual element to the crimes?

If Jeremy was having a sexual relationship with another man or indeed a woman other than Julie, all this would illustrate was Jeremy’s infidelity and might or might not give some reflection as to his character. Equally it would still have no bearing on the crime in consideration. Many documents have colloquial language for the term homosexuality. Let me give you some examples of the reports where, the correct terminology was used but in a negative context.  This excludes reports such as that prepared by DI Dickinson which is also littered with references to homosexual activity. For example in Ainsley’s two short reports of 1985. Here are some references:

“He fell in with criminal and Homosexual company” 

“He met the witness Brett Collins who is homosexual”

Mugford claimed that Jeremy had openly admitted to her “at least one homosexual relationship”

Mugford claimed that Jeremy had been to “New Zealand and there had some type of homosexual relationship with a man named Jeff it is also at this time that he met Brett Collins.” 

 “It was on the 13th of August that Brett Collins, the Homosexual friend of Jeremy’s who had stayed with Jeremy prior to August 1985, returned from a holiday in Greece.”

“It is said that there he fell in with criminal and homosexual company.” 

“He is considered by some who know him to be bisexual” 

“Always looking for affection, especially from girls, a bisexual, a shallow person” 

“He is also an admitted homosexual.” (re: Collins) 

“In addition, Bamber himself is believed to have been involved in other homosexual associations.”

There is more evidence, documents go on to state that Julie had, “said Jeremy was gay,”[3] and further in 1991 DI Hammett describes his lunch with Robert Boutflour and notes that he had remarked on Jeremy’s “un-savoury homosexual character” and that he was seen out “with a feather in his ear.”[4] I have only touched on some examples of these attitudes amongst the case documents. There are many more examples but there is not the space to cover this comprehensively.

If indeed it was important to mention that Collins or Jeremy might have been homosexual perhaps just one mention might have sufficed. One might argue that the police had tried to establish a sexual relationship between Jeremy and Brett to uncover if they had been involved in the shootings together, (Brett was out of the UK at the time) so there was no no evidence of this.  Brett told police in a statement that although he was homosexual he had never had a sexual relationship with Jeremy, while Jeremy himself denied anything other than a close, affectionate friendship with Collins.  Collins did have a criminal record for the very minor offences like possession of cannabis.[5]

Even if Jeremy Bamber were a self confessed homosexual it remains to be seen how this connects with the tragedies at White House Farm. As recently as 2004 Jeremy was depicted in a documentary as a homosexual and a transvestite on a tractor. It is clear that questions over Jeremy’s sexuality have persistently been used to persecute him and government bodies set up to regulate this have done nothing. I suggest, based on the documental evidence, that police had disliked Jeremy’s personal associations and so did his extended family and girlfriend. Bearing in mind that homosexuality had only been decriminalised 18 years previously, this evidence illustrates nothing more than the persecution of a man who was believed to be part of an unpopular minority group. There was an essential determination to tie Jeremy into this group because homosexuals were considered by many traditionalists as fitting into the same category as criminals.

[1] 16.09.86 Statement, Suzette Ford

[2] Holmes 45/22 Miller Handwritten Actions

[3] Master Schedule detail Box 10/308

[4] Holmes 24/61 DI Hammett Report, 1991 & Holmes 7:33 pg 10 R, Boutflour

[5] Criminal Record background check New Zealand Police

I do not believe the above has anything to do with homophobia as suggested on the OS but more to do with Criminal profiling and/or forensic psychology.

SH case files were also 'littered' with references to homosexuality and with hindsight it is clear why the police may have been interested in these aspects of his psychological make-up.

References to Bamber wearing make-up may well have been a sign of the times but could equally have been suggestive that he had a fetish for transvestism. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2505114/Killer-Jeremy-Bamber-wore-lipstick-eye-shadow-public-provoke-father-months-shot-family-dead.html

Articles of interest on psychopathy and sexuality:

http://search.proquest.com/openview/96d6679a5b6ca122048859c5d33ce606/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=1820903

"I don't think being bisexual means you're more likely to be sociopathic, but I definitely think that sociopathic personality types--especially extreme ones--are more likely to exhibit bisexual tendencies. In "Confessions of a Sociopath", the author M.E. Thomas refers to this as "gender indifference" rather than bisexuality. She doesn't care about the gender of who she seduces, because she acknowledges the power she gains in doing so isn't reliant on gender.https://www.quora.com/Are-bisexuality-and-homosexuality-more-common-in-sociopaths-psychopaths-antisocial-personality-disorders-than-in-the-general-population


In their own words, psychopaths say the following about their gender - Read here: http://psychopathsandlove.com/a-hidden-fact-of-psychopaths-they-have-no-gender/
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 07:47:PM by Stephanie »
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