The window catch issue

[Romeo]

Yeah I know, it's simply a fact that a person could exit and leave the house apparently secure. As for the kitchen window, the fanlight could be locked from the outside (as tested by the police and documented), via that fanlight a person could move the casement catches in to a locked position from the outside, either by reaching in with their arm or extending their reach with a stick (or similar).

I don't really see how that can be denied. In any event it doesn't point blame necessarily at JB, it just allows the possibility that another person was involved.

Yep, I see what your saying.....  just assuming it wasn't JB....it must of been someone who knew how the window worked i.e. could be locked from outside. Presumably the close relatives all had water tight alibi's for that night......JB doesn't have anyone to prove he was at home after ringing JB until 3.26am

[guest2181]

Yep, I see what your saying.....

Was there a ladder at the farm? I find it almost inconceivable that there wasn't. So for all we know, he could have just exited via the master bedroom window. The campaign team may want to single out the kitchen window but JB was not convicted on specifically exiting via that route.

[guest2181]

Yep, I see what your saying.....  just assuming it wasn't JB....it must of been someone who knew how the window worked i.e. could be locked from outside. Presumably the close relatives all had water tight alibi's for that night......JB doesn't have anyone to prove he was at home after ringing JB until 3.26am

Jeremy's account of the phone call from Nevill limits it to him or Sheila.

[Romeo]

Was there a ladder at the farm? I find it almost inconceivable that there wasn't. So for all we know, he could have just exited via the master bedroom window. The campaign team may want to single out the kitchen window but JB was not convicted on specifically exiting via that route.

The simplest solution is usually the best....a Ladder...of course there were ladders on the farm.

I believe JB is guilty! Neville would not have had time to make two phone calls....one to JB and one to the Chelmsford police..... why make two calls anyway..

[guest2181]

The simplest solution is usually the best....a Ladder...of course there were ladders on the farm.

I believe JB is guilty! Neville would not have had time to make two phone calls....one to JB and one to the Chelmsford police..... why make two calls anyway..

I agree, plus there is no evidence whatsoever that Nevill even made one call.

I think some people just like to fight for an underdog, however I don't think people should lose sight of the seriousness and pure evil nature of the crimes that JB has been convicted of.

[LITD]

Was there a ladder at the farm? I find it almost inconceivable that there wasn't. So for all we know, he could have just exited via the master bedroom window. The campaign team may want to single out the kitchen window but JB was not convicted on specifically exiting via that route.

Can I just say whilst I see your point here but, isn't there the issue of marks on the ground where the ladder stood? Would the police not have found them? Although of course Jeremy may have covered that by clearing any tracks but not easy i the dark

[David1819]

Was there a ladder at the farm? I find it almost inconceivable that there wasn't. So for all we know, he could have just exited via the master bedroom window. The campaign team may want to single out the kitchen window but JB was not convicted on specifically exiting via that route.

So in the middle of night he finds this ladder, places it over the main bedroom window round the front of the house without waking anyone up. Then he enters via the bathroom window, Kills his family, climbs down the ladder, puts the ladder away then cycles off into the night.

Sounds legit   

[guest2181]

Can I just say whilst I see your point here but, isn't there the issue of marks on the ground where the ladder stood? Would the police not have found them? Although of course Jeremy may have covered that by clearing any tracks but not easy i the dark

You're assuming that there would any such marks, or if there were that they would be identifiable or even noticed.

I'm not suggesting that this was the exit used, but it's a possibility and so that's now two realistic exits we have. Maybe there are others that JB knew of (and used) that are not obvious to us.

I think we can only agree with the courts assertion that it 'was' possible for a person to have committed the murders and exited the house. Taking other variables into account, such as Jeremy's account of a phone call from Nevill, we can also be certain that the only person who could have both committed the murders and left the building, is Jeremy.

The basis of the trial that either Jeremy or Sheila was responsible is sound.

[guest2181]

So in the middle of night he finds this ladder, places it over the main bedroom window round the front of the house without waking anyone up. Then he enters via the bathroom window, Kills his family, climbs down the ladder, puts the ladder away then cycles off into the night.

Sounds legit 

No. He enters the house, commits five murders, goes outside and gets a ladder from the shed, leans it against the bedroom window, goes back inside and locks the door. Goes upstairs, climbs out of the window and down the ladder, puts ladder back in shed.

The window was open and wasn't secured from the inside.

Personally I think the kitchen window is still the winner, but this is a feasible alternative. Sounds very legit, I agree.

.........

The open bedroom window is top left.

[guest2181]

It cannot be said that it was IMPOSSIBLE for a person to have exited the house.

However much you want that to be the case.

[Adam]

So in the middle of night he finds this ladder, places it over the main bedroom window round the front of the house without waking anyone up. Then he enters via the bathroom window, Kills his family, climbs down the ladder, puts the ladder away then cycles off into the night.

Sounds legit 

He could always place the ladder under the upstairs bedroom window after he had killed everyone.

The evidence shows he didn't exit through the upstairs window. If he had the horizintal lock on the kitchen window would have been on it's pegs. The only open upstairs window at the crime scene was too small for him to get through. Bamber told police he knew how to exit the kitchen window and told Julie he had found a way to bang it shut from outside.

If there was a ladder at WHF and he could get out of one of the upstairs windows, it would have been an option for him. But it was an option the evidence shows he didn't take.

[Adam]

If he secured all downstairs windows, including putting the horizontal kitchen window lock on it's pegs, then excited an upstairs window using a WHF ladder, leaving that upstairs window open, the police would have accused him of doing exactly this.

Why ? There was an available ladder at WHF and an open upstairs window which was big enough for him to exit from.

Bamber believed his best plan was to have all upstairs and downstairs windows and doors firmly locked. The exception being the kitchen window which just had one of the two latches in the shut position.

[Jane]

Yep, I see what your saying.....  just assuming it wasn't JB....it must of been someone who knew how the window worked i.e. could be locked from outside. Presumably the close relatives all had water tight alibi's for that night......JB doesn't have anyone to prove he was at home after ringing JB until 3.26am

And does it not stretch credibility to suggest that on the very night Sheila goes mad, gets hold of a gun causing Nevill to make a silly o'clock call to Jeremy, a totally OTHER perpetrator commits the murders?

[guest7363]

He could always place the ladder under the upstairs bedroom window after he had killed everyone.

The evidence shows he didn't exit through the upstairs window. If he had the horizintal lock on the kitchen window would have been on it's pegs. The only open upstairs window at the crime scene was too small for him to get through. Bamber told police he knew how to exit the kitchen window and told Julie he had found a way to bang it shut from outside.

If there was a ladder at WHF and he could get out of one of the upstairs windows, it would have been an option for him. But it was an option the evidence shows he didn't take.

I think the upstairs was sash type so could easily be pulled down.  I don't think Julie said he excited by the kitchen window, she said there was a window with a catch on it and you could bang it to make it look secure?
 
From the 2002 appeal
Later the appellant said he had decided to shoot his family and he told her that he had discovered that the catch on the kitchen window did not work and he could gain access to the house in that way. The appellant said he planned to leave the address by a different window, which latched when it was shut from the outside

I think on the face of it, no one knows which window it was, I think the police just thought that the kitchen window was most likely

[lookout]

How long after the tragedy were these window areas cleaned ?