When the enquiry changed from a suicide to murder did the relatives have alibis?

[shonapugs]

Jack, Jack, Jack, I love ya, you're my best friend.............Sorry. I opened the tudor rose. Honestly, though, Jackie, is there more proof that JB did it, or Sheila did it, or an outsider did it, or a relative........... or are we all just surmising, and trying to analyse ancient, badly-kept (and possibly doctored) evidence and getting nowhere? I'm impressed with the work that Mike's put in, but I still hold with my original theory. I remember asking you, moons ago, just what makes you so sure of JB's innocence. I don't remember getting an answer, though..................

[chochokeira]

 You have to have spent time in prison to understand how it fucks up your mind.

No, John, we do not need personal experience of imprisonment when we have your example before us. We have all the proof we need of what prison can do to a person's mind right here.

What we don't have is hard proof to substantiate the wild claims you make. Nor will that proof be forthcoming, because you are simply playing your same old boring and disruptive games.

Many people do manage to lead happy lives after being in prison, by the way. Some former prisoners have established happy marriages and good careers for themselves. Off the top of my head I recall one former prisoner who became a psychologist and another who became an author. So it's entirely wrong to generalise.

[paulg]

Well, the silencer makes it impossible for Sheila to have done it. The silencer had blood and paint on it. Jeremy knew something was going down at the farm, via a phone call from his father. Jeremy said his sister was going mad with a gun, via info from his father, but evidence says this is not true. Other forensic stuff regarding Sheila, also makes it extremely unlikely it was her, unless its a conspiracy.

Thats the evidence Jackie.

[shonapugs]

It would be very scarey if the silencer thing was a total load of rubbish, and unimportant from the start, and planted by a spiteful family member. Sheila (imo) wouldn't have bothered with a silencer. She would have just grabbed whatever gun came her way, and hope that it was loaded, and efficient enough to a) cleanly kill the boys b) kill June before June could stop her (she nearly made a mess of that) c) kill Ralph (another horrible mess) and d) kill herself before anyone could stop her. She must have known that Ralph was downstairs, calling the police, an ambulance, or JB. Does any of this scenario make sense?

[shonapugs]

And as to bloodied footsteps by another killer, he could have just stepped round the blood. He/she didn't have to wade through it.

[shonapugs]

And which image of Sheila is the true, original one? The one with her thumb on the trigger, or the one with her hand uselessly lying on the gun?

[HMEssex]

Abs I am getting excited now waiting for verification I might open a bottle of wine I might agree Jeremys guilty after I see this

Yeah - and now John is trying to wipe it all off on me! HE is making those wild assumptions, not me.
John, I am not here to impress you - not at all!!  Good grief! Hahaha

You did say that it wasn't true abs. What exactly isn't true?

That Jeremy was going to buy a Porche. You don´t know that - you are making it up.
OK, I am done with your games for now.

No it is true, the kit car thing was only his pipe dream before the murders.

Why settle for bronze when you can have platinum?

Between:

   Regina
   Respondent
   - and -
   JEREMY NEVILL BAMBER
   Appellant

Ground 11 – the proposed purchase of a Porsche by the appellant
This ground was abandoned before the hearing and nothing further need be said about it.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/2912.html

From same report:


"140.  He admitted enjoying the good things in life – restaurants, wine bars, travelling, fast cars etc. In respect of the conversation with PC Myall about the Porsche car, the appellant said he was in fact referring to a kit model car made by a company called Covan Turbo who produced vehicles looking very similar to Porsche vehicles but at a cost of between £1-2,000."

[grahameb]

Jack, Jack, Jack, I love ya, you're my best friend.............Sorry. I opened the tudor rose. Honestly, though, Jackie, is there more proof that JB did it, or Sheila did it, or an outsider did it, or a relative........... or are we all just surmising, and trying to analyse ancient, badly-kept (and possibly doctored) evidence and getting nowhere? I'm impressed with the work that Mike's put in, but I still hold with my original theory. I remember asking you, moons ago, just what makes you so sure of JB's innocence. I don't remember getting an answer, though..................

The butler did it.

[paulg]

It would be very scarey if the silencer thing was a total load of rubbish, and unimportant from the start, and planted by a spiteful family member. Sheila (imo) wouldn't have bothered with a silencer. She would have just grabbed whatever gun came her way, and hope that it was loaded, and efficient enough to a) cleanly kill the boys b) kill June before June could stop her (she nearly made a mess of that) c) kill Ralph (another horrible mess) and d) kill herself before anyone could stop her. She must have known that Ralph was downstairs, calling the police, an ambulance, or JB. Does any of this scenario make sense?

It may well have been planted by the police and family.

My scenario is this:

Murderer waits outside WHF, then enters when confident that everyone is asleep. Gets loaded and ready gun, plus some spare ammo thats lying placed conveiniently in kitchen. Makes way upstairs, but is disturbed by the awake Sheila.

She's led into parents bedroom, with gun placed under chin. Parents wake, as light is turned on. Sheila is shot in neck, followed by parents. Neville manages to get downstairs followed by killer. Is bludgeoned, then finished off after reloading. Killer goes back upstairs, finishes off June, and puts another bullet into Sheila. Followed by the kids,but they could have been first.

Sheilas right hand and arm has blood on it, as she used this to try to plug first non fatal shot(why plug it if you want to die?).I picture in my mind something similar to the scene in "saving private Ryan", where the guy is shot in the neck, and the American and German fight around him on the floor with a knife.I'd be amazed if she was able to put another bullet in her own neck after the first.

If she did do the killings, why did she choose to take her own life next to the person she disliked the most, i think she'd prefer to do it next to the kids.

Why did she put it under chin, when she showns clinical shooting to the head? Surely in the mouth, or forehead would be a suicide choice?

Anyway people, these are just my thoughts, not really open to debate.

[Hartley]

Jack, Jack, Jack, I love ya, you're my best friend.............Sorry. I opened the tudor rose. Honestly, though, Jackie, is there more proof that JB did it, or Sheila did it, or an outsider did it, or a relative........... or are we all just surmising, and trying to analyse ancient, badly-kept (and possibly doctored) evidence and getting nowhere? I'm impressed with the work that Mike's put in, but I still hold with my original theory. I remember asking you, moons ago, just what makes you so sure of JB's innocence. I don't remember getting an answer, though..................

The butler did it.

Hmmm it's Miss Peacock with the candle stick for me 

[grahameb]

And as to bloodied footsteps by another killer, he could have just stepped round the blood. He/she didn't have to wade through it.

If that is so then it is just as reasonable to say that Sheila did the same.

[shonapugs]

Doesn't this tell you something?? His entire family is inside that farmhouse, Christ only knows what is happening in there, and JB is sitting in a police car discussing silly nonsense like that? Why isn't he begging for someone to go in there and save his parents and the poor boys? Why isn't he running up to the door and trying to help? Apparently, his dad has begged him for help. And he sits outside making inane conversation?

[grahameb]

Doesn't this tell you something?? His entire family is inside that farmhouse, Christ only knows what is happening in there, and JB is sitting in a police car discussing silly nonsense like that? Why isn't he begging for someone to go in there and save his parents and the poor boys? Why isn't he running up to the door and trying to help? Apparently, his dad has begged him for help. And he sits outside making inane conversation?

Why make the phone call to the police in the first place?

[shonapugs]

Sorry I can't do quotes - this is in response to HMEssex.

[shonapugs]

And grahame - he had to cover his arse. He was silly and smug, but not stupid.