Aftermath, Where is the forensic evidence that Jeremy Bamber killed his family?

[Romeo]

Thanks for the photo Caroline....it is soo obvious in your photo that livor mortis is present.

Actually thanks also David, as your photo looks as though Sheila has livor mortis on her arms ...yes on the upper side....'cos she has been turned over after death.

[Caroline]

The only person that sais rubbish is you.

You expect me to ignore the photographs and forensic science to just blindly follow your poor feeble minded judgement? I think not

Forensic science? The only person making these claims is YOU and you're NOT a forensic scientist! 

I don't just smell bacon from Jeremy's HAM acting, I smell bull shit from the pretend forensic lab set up in your bedroom! 

[sami]

Oh Dear... David even you agreed that you could just see Livor Mortis in earlier posts.  I'm not confused with Livor Mortis and Rigor Mortis, this shows on Sheila's left shoulder just above the top of her nightdress. there are photo's on this site to prove this, and it's much easier to see than June's as there is so much blood on her legs. The reason that this appears on top of her shoulder is because she was turned over after her shoulder had laid on the floor....hence the blood would have settled underneath her shoulder before she was turned over and faced upwards.

yes i agree romeo and well spotted.it explains why the blood trails run where there do

[David1819]

Oh Dear... David even you agreed that you could just see Livor Mortis in earlier posts.

If you look very closely you can just about see it start to develop. If Sheila had died around 3am it would have been fully developed

The reason that this appears on top of her shoulder is because she was turned over after her shoulder had laid on the floor....hence the blood would have settled underneath her shoulder before she was turned over and faced upwards.

This did not happen. There are no blood stains that show this ever took place. Ive already told you this   

Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back.

[Romeo]

Taff Jones...in his notes...says there was a lot of blood on the floor near Sheila, also how is it that the blood is only on the right side of Sheila's nightdress if she wasn't lying on her right side at some point?

[David1819]

Taff Jones...in his notes...says there was a lot of blood on the floor near Sheila, also how is it that the blood is only on the right side of Sheila's nightdress if she wasn't lying on her right side at some point?

Its Junes blood. She was shot several times (non fatally) got out of the bed and ran round the room and back to towards the door before collapsing. She was then shot several times later

[Steve_uk]

Its Junes blood. She was shot several times (non fatally) got out of the bed and ran round the room and back to towards the door before collapsing. She was then shot several times later

I don't know whether to laugh or cry..

[Caroline]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry..

I'm laughing, best laugh I have had in ages - David has become a megalomaniac;D . I'm off, I stand reading any more of this bullshit.

[David1819]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry..

The blood on the carpet was tested, It was Junes blood type.

The bloodstain patterns on June's nightdress show she moved around after being shot.

The photos show a trail of blood that starts at Junes side of the bed, goes round the room to the other side of the bed, then leads back to where June's body lay.

Its not rocket science Steve

[Steve_uk]

The blood on the carpet was tested, It was Junes blood type.

The bloodstain patterns on June's nightdress show she moved around after being shot.

The photos show a trail of blood that starts at Junes side of the bed, goes round the room to the other side of the bed then leads back to where Junes body lay.

Its not rocket science, Steve

She was peppered with bullets in bed, bullets whose trajectory pierced the pillow. God knows how she felt at that point and she certainly wasn't doing any running in any direction. Jeremy couldn't know how many bullets he would need to kill humans, having heretofore practised only on the peachicks roaming the Farm, and was surprised to see her still alive when he came back up after despatching Nevill downstairs, so he gave her one last blast between the eyes within close proximity, which is how her DNA became lodged in the silencer.

[Romeo]

Nor me Steve!

 David, which direction is the blood going from Sheila's wounds? I'll answer that for you....it's falling to the right.which means Sheila was on her right side at some point after being shot.

June did not go right around the bed! she only started to walk around this way, she wouldn't have been in the position she was found if she was coming back towards the door when shot and killed.

[David1819]

Nor me Steve!

 David, which direction is the blood going from Sheila's wounds? I'll answer that for you....it's falling to the right.which means Sheila was on her right side at some point after being shot.

June did not go right around the bed! she only started to walk around this way, she wouldn't have been in the position she was found if she was coming back towards the door when shot and killed.

No the blood is running down! Look at both sides of her mouth. The neck wounds only run downwards towards the right because the wounds are more the right than the left. Gravity will take the blood in the path of least resistance

[David1819]

She was peppered with bullets in bed, bullets whose trajectory pierced the pillow. God knows how she felt at that point and she certainly wasn't doing any running in any direction. Jeremy couldn't know how many bullets he would need to kill humans, having heretofore practised only on the peachicks roaming the Farm, and was surprised to see her still alive when he came back up after despatching Nevill downstairs, so he gave her one last blast between the eyes within close proximity, which is how her DNA became lodged in the silencer.

So how does me manage to kill Sheila around 7AM when he is outside with police Steve?

Maybe he had David Bain hiding in his room ready to finish the job for 7.30? 

[Steve_uk]

So how does me manage to kill Sheila around 7AM when he is outside with police Steve?

Maybe he had David Bain hiding in his room ready to finish the job for 7.30? 

The call to Police from Jeremy's cottage to PC West at Chelmsford at 3:26am or 3:36am depending on your point of view(and incidentally the only call from a Bamber that morning) could have meant a time of death for his five victims at 3:00am. As has been pointed out to you from the photograph there is lividity on the shoulder and around the eye and the cracked blood has dried.

[David1819]

The call to Police from Jeremy's cottage to PC West at Chelmsford at 3:26am or 3:36am depending on your point of view(and incidentally the only call from a Bamber that morning) could have meant a time of death for his five victims at 3:00am. As has been pointed out to you from the photograph there is lividity on the shoulder and around the eye and the cracked blood has dried.

The thin stream of blood down her mouth can dry in under an hour.

Blood dries over time. How quickly this happens depends on the surface on which the blood landed, how much blood the spatter contains, and the heat and humidity at the crime scene, but as a rule the outer edges of the stain dry first. Consequently, after the interior portion flakes off or is smeared by an object, a dry blood spatter can skeletonize, that is, leave behind a ring similar in appearance (if not color) to a water ring on a coffee table [source: James et al.]. Patterns of drying help analysts determine how long an assault went on, detect whether it took place all at once or in stages, and nail down possible crime scene contamination [source: Wonder]. Clotting patterns in blood provide similar information and can help nail down the time factor if analysts arrive at the scene before blood can dry. Clotting begins within 3 to 15 minutes, but actual times vary by amount, surface type and environment. Mixed levels of clotting can indicate that multiple blows or gunshots occurred over time [sources: Dutelle, bloodstain pattern evidence. Anita Y. Wonder].


WHAT WOULD BE A REASONABLE
DRYING TIME FOR FLOWS?
Because the drying time of the flows may have
been viewed as important, an exhibit was
made to illustrate timing for flows to leave
faint traces after being wiped. A reasonable
facsimile was approximated for the humidity
and temperature of the stream area where the
vehicle travel terminated. The stream area
was cooler and probably a little more humid
than the test area for the flows. The conclusion
would therefore be that drying would
be within that time or longer. Exact times
for the experiment are purposely not given.
When a court exhibit is necessary to demonstrate
drying times, the experimentation
should be conducted using the parameters of
the specific case. In this situation the result of
TIMING IS EVERYTHING 59
the exercise was that five minutes was insufficient for the degree of drying noted
in the photographs of the victim's face. The exhibit confirmed that the blood
flows occurred, were wiped, and dried over a time period in excess of that available
between the alleged traffic accident and the arrival of the volunteer fireman.
No transfer material to wipe the flows was found in the car.
Conditions of the reconstruction were that fresh human blood, hematocrit
47 percent, was drawn by syringe venipuncture without anticoagulant. Runs
were immediately applied to the reverse side of pigskin suede, which is a
reasonable facsimile to human skin, tilted at 35 degrees, at a temperature of 68° E
At one, two, three, four, and five minutes,
respectively, a latex gloved finger was passed
over the stain. At remaining times a facial
tissue was rubbed through the stain. For
light touching, five minutes was sufficient
drying time but for wiping of the stains,
up to 20 minutes was required under the
conditions of this experiment. After six
and a half minutes the whole sheet was
tilted at 90 ° to see if the flows could change
directions that late


The thin stream of blood running down Sheila's mouth has coagulated while the thicker stream on her neck is not fully coagulated. You can tell by appearance, The outer edges of the blood are more coagulated than the centre.

A study published in the International Journal of Legal Medicine reported that a blood drop on a hard surface in a typical indoor setting at 20 degrees Celsius is completely dry in 60 minutes. Increasing the temperature to 24 degrees Celsius reduces the drying time to only 30 minutes


One thin stream of dry blood is perfectly consistent with absence of lividity showing Sheila died just over two hours before these photos were taken.