The twins.

[David1819]

direct me to the post that explains it

there are several. You have already read them recently. If you cant remember or don't understand the evidence not much else I can do

[Steve_uk]

I think they probably were killed first but it's an educated guess, no more.

[sami]

there are several. You have already read them recently. If you cant remember or don't understand the evidence not much else I can do

because a twin had his thumb in his mouth means they were shot first 

[Caroline]

Twins were shot first. Crime scene shows this and the authorities worked this out. That is how it ended up in Julies September 23rd statement.

Twins were shot first, hence Daniel and Nicholas consist of murder charges count one and two. Sheila being shot last thus she is murder charge count five.





Of 50 women charged with crimes of violence, 44% committed their offence during the paramenstruum (P < 0·02) and there was a significant lack of offences during the ovulatory and post-ovulatory phases of the menstrual cycle

Either still in bed and woke from the shots, or downstairs calling for help

Yes your leg is being pulled. see below

There is no way to know who was shot first or last.

[Strobe]

Twins were shot first. Crime scene shows this and the authorities worked this out. That is how it ended up in Julies September 23rd statement.

Twins were shot first, hence Daniel and Nicholas consist of murder charges count one and two. Sheila being shot last thus she is murder charge count five.





Of 50 women charged with crimes of violence, 44% committed their offence during the paramenstruum (P < 0·02) and there was a significant lack of offences during the ovulatory and post-ovulatory phases of the menstrual cycle

Either still in bed and woke from the shots, or downstairs calling for help

Yes your leg is being pulled. see below

If the children were shot first with one bullet for each, as you say, that would leave at most only nine bullets left, before the killer needed to reload, but ten more bullets were fired before the killer ran out of ammunition. So I take it you disagree with that view and maintain that only five shots were fired at June at that stage, as opposed to six, and then four at Nevill, with the killer returning to fire more shots at the victims after reloading.

Also, it would appear that you disagree with the view that the shots to the children were fired in rapid succession. A ballistics expert would be able to confirm or deny whether one shot was fired to each on a separate occasion. I have not heard of it being suggested by an expert.
 

[Strobe]

The theory of Sheila's leg being pulled was rejected and refuted via the carpet blood stains. That is why the CCRC never used this in their judgments. Jeremy's conviction rests on the silencer.

That is incorrect. The Appeal Court accepted Dr Martyn Ismail's evidence that photographs show that Sheila's body was moved after she was killed and that that constituted further proof of Bamber's guilt. the CCRC have not, as far as I know, contradicted the 2002 Appeal Court's judgement,

The truth is, lines linking the blood spots make it obvious that the police moved Sheila's body.

[David1819]

That is incorrect. The Appeal Court accepted Dr Martyn Ismail's evidence that photographs show that Sheila's body was moved after she was killed and that that constituted further proof of Bamber's guilt. the CCRC have not, as far as I know, contradicted the 2002 Appeal Court's judgement,

The truth is, lines linking the blood spots make it obvious that the police moved Sheila's body.

Ismail's evidence was refuted by MT I have posted the relevant transcript.

What you are seeing in those photos is a parallax. Those lines would only be valid making a 2D comparison. You will need to have a 3D grid with the correct axis and reference points



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax

[Adam]

Excuse me Adam but you have misquoted buddy, he said he thought Nevill woke and 'went towards the twins room' he did not say he 'was shot in the twins room' you are putting words in buddy's mouth.  It is quite feasible to think that is what Nevill did because I am sure in such a situation the twins safety would be the first thought for all the adults.

Excuse me Maggie. Can you not say 'excuse me'. You're acting as though I've abused a poster the same way you let other posters abuse me. But appreciate you also want to have a dig at me after the other dear ladies have tried to goad me this week.

Buddy doesn't say whether Neville was in or out of the twins bedroom. I assume he meant in.

All will be revealed today when Buddy gives his breakdown on how Sheila committed the massacre. There is no way he will give us these amazing snippets,  and then not expand if he wants to be taken seriously.

Why does the evidence not show Neville was shot in/by the twins bedroom ?

Who was Sheila's accomplice waiting for Neville in the kitchen ?

If Neville woke and got shot upstairs and then confronted downstairs straight away, how did he manage to phone Bamber at 3:10am and then the police at 3:36am ?

How did Neville get confronted in the kitchen by Sheila's accomplice and then end up getting back upstairs to be shot 4 times.


All will be revealed by Buddy.

[Adam]

Twins were shot first. Crime scene shows this and the authorities worked this out. That is how it ended up in Julies September 23rd statement.

Twins were shot first, hence Daniel and Nicholas consist of murder charges count one and two. Sheila being shot last thus she is murder charge count five.





Of 50 women charged with crimes of violence, 44% committed their offence during the paramenstruum (P < 0·02) and there was a significant lack of offences during the ovulatory and post-ovulatory phases of the menstrual cycle

Either still in bed and woke from the shots, or downstairs calling for help

Yes your leg is being pulled. see below

The quote you put doesn't dismiss the 2002 statement that Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot. You said yourself she was sitting up when shot leaning against the bedside cabinet. She would have just died sitting up. So legs pulled by Bamber.

First, last it's not really that important. We both agree Bamber didn't fire 8 bullets into the twins, then go downstairs to reload before entering the main bedroom.  How does the crime scene show the twins were shot first. Or is that just you're opinion ?

So you agree with Buddy that Neville may have been asleep when Sheila started shooting the twins ? So he woke and decided to call Bamber at 3.10am and the police at 3.36am. Rather than confront Sheila, who had just shot 8 bullets into them. Or get medical assistance for the twins.

Or Neville was phoning Bamber ? Letting Sheila go upstairs with the rifle. Why did Neville only say 11 words after phoning and waiting several minutes for Bamber to answer ? Sheila hadn't shot anyone. Why ? Neville phoned the forth furthest away police station 26 minutes later !

Neville would have been shot upstairs in the twins bedroom if he ran upstairs after his amazing hearing heard the shots. And Sheila only had 3 bullets left.

Please send me a link to the 2012 CCRC judgement you keep quoting.

[Strobe]

If the children were shot first with one bullet for each, as you say, that would leave at most only nine bullets left, before the killer needed to reload, but ten more bullets were fired before the killer ran out of ammunition. So I take it you disagree with that view and maintain that only five shots were fired at June at that stage, as opposed to six, and then four at Nevill, with the killer returning to fire more shots at the victims after reloading.

Also, it would appear that you disagree with the view that the shots to the children were fired in rapid succession. A ballistics expert would be able to confirm or deny whether one shot was fired to each on a separate occasion. I have not heard of it being suggested by an expert.

This post by Hartley should be considered.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5615.msg246289.html#msg246289

"It's not possible for there to have been 11 bullets when entering the master bedroom, only 10.
Otherwise the reload after shooting an immobile Nevill 4 times would make a total of 26 bullets, there were only 25.
There was only one extra breach bullet added and it was simply due to a partial reload, there was no special attempt to load 11 bullets."

Another consideration leads me to think that the rifle must have had only ten bullets if June and Nevill were, as it seems, shot before the children. If there were 11 bullets, the ten shots fired would leave one spare. The killer would not have saved a bullet in such a circumstance.

[sami]

excellent posts.strobe

[lookout]

Theoretically speaking--------unless Strobe had been present at the scene !

[sami]

Theoretically speaking--------unless Strobe had been present at the scene !

yes thats true.its explained well

[lookout]

I must have scared him/her away. Oh dear.

[buddy]

I am more than happy to concede that there was no one waiting downstairs, however I think that
reinforces my theory.
If Sheila shot the children first which I firmly believe, because she didn't want them taken into care.
Her next target would have been June who suggested it. After hearing the shots Neville came to
investigate the noise of gun fire, and was shot through the arm. He ran downstairs to call Jeremy.
Sheila went to her mothers room and shot her, before going back downstairs to shoot her father, and then reloaded to finish the job.