teddybear

[Steve_uk]

you seem very cynical of things

Yes I regret that post. The doctor seemed quite fair reading his statements post-murders.

[Jane]

Yet what a chance for a fresh start between mother, daughter and son-in-law. It just tells me she still may have had a problem in 1977 when the marriage took place, Jeremy says his relationship with June deteriorated from 1978 and June was hospitalized for the second time in 1982.

Steve, whilst I'm not saying you're wrong, I'd caution you to remember that if having strongly fixed ideas -on just about ANYTHING!!!- denoted mental instability, many of us would be sufferers!!!!!!

[sami]

we have to remember that despite her illness she had NO record of attacking people or being violent to anyone

[lookout]

Dr Fergusons statements suggest otherwise.

Then you have the fact she had delusions all of a religious theme. Believing herself to be The Virgin Mary and Joan of Arc. Those are two significant people of the Christian Faith.

Doesn't mean to say that she was religious. It was delusions of grandeur that she suffered.

[lookout]

So we should all believe in the doctor/psychiatrist ? Are they ALWAYS right ?

[Steve_uk]

So we should all believe in the doctor/psychiatrist ? Are they ALWAYS right ?

I don't think they can predict if and when someone is going to snap, but then Dr. Ferguson didn't did he?

[David1819]

So we should all believe in the doctor/psychiatrist ? Are they ALWAYS right ?

This is not a matter or him being right or wrong. Her religious beliefs and religious delusions are symptoms he would observe by via conversation with her, Its no matter of speculation.

The only things that could be right or wrong would be the method of treatments. But the Religious aspect would be via her communicating with him its not something you can get wrong. 

[sami]

Doesn't mean to say that she was religious. It was delusions of grandeur that she suffered.

i agree lookout

[Steve_uk]

This is not a matter or him being right or wrong. Her religious beliefs and religious delusions are symptoms he would observe by via conversation with her, Its no matter of speculation.

The only things that could be right or wrong would be the method of treatments. But the Religious aspect would be via her communicating with him its not something you can get wrong.

No but you have to look at whether she was violent towards others(for example using a knife) in these episodes and the evidence suggests that she was not.

[David1819]

No but you have to look at whether she was violent towards others(for example using a knife) in these episodes and the evidence suggests that she was not.

No we don't. Not all episodes are the same, Colin has reported her being violent.

Besides trying to downplay Sheila's mental heath is strawman argument for the pro guilt camp. Because had she not been so mentally ill Jeremy would not have conceived the idea in the first place

[sami]

No we don't. Not all episodes are the same, Colin has reported her being violent.

Besides trying to downplay Sheila's mental heath is strawman argument for the pro guilt camp. Because had she not been so mentally ill Jeremy would not have conceived the idea in the first place

been violent how throwing a vase,the fact is she has never attacked anyone in her life. no matter what you say david,you cant change that,many people with her condition are not violent and dont kill others,they self harm or take their own lives

[Steve_uk]

No we don't. Not all episodes are the same, Colin has reported her being violent.

Besides trying to downplay Sheila's mental heath is strawman argument for the pro guilt camp. Because had she not been so mentally ill Jeremy would not have conceived the idea in the first place

Oh well that would be big of him to admit. We're not talking about the odd slap or dropping one of Colin's ceramics on the kitchen floor, but an escalation which was atypical of the Sheila who had recently embraced CND and found God in a humble way.

[sami]

No we don't. Not all episodes are the same, Colin has reported her being violent.

Besides trying to downplay Sheila's mental heath is strawman argument for the pro guilt camp. Because had she not been so mentally ill Jeremy would not have conceived the idea in the first place

jb's conceived idea was wrong,because bar you and a few others ,no one believes sheila had a turn that night

[David1819]

Oh well that would be big of him to admit. We're not talking about the odd slap or dropping one of Colin's ceramics on the kitchen floor, but an escalation which was atypical of the Sheila who had recently embraced CND and found God in a humble way.

On the contrary, on the lead up to the tragedy she had her anti psychotic medication reduced by half and there was talks of sending the twins into foster care.

Several other researchers have confirmed some of Resnick’s (1969, 1970) findings. For instance, Marleau, Roy, Laporte, Webanck, and Poulin (1995) examined a sample of 17 women who killed or attempted to kill their children, concluding that most of the women had a history of mental illness and killed for ‘‘altruistic’’ reasons. Rohde, Raic, Varchmin- Schultheib, and Marneros (1998) investigated 33 cases of child murder and found that 9 cases involved ‘‘extended suicide,’’ that is, a type of filicide whereby the mother experiences suicidal ideation, which is carried out on her children. Of the 9 cases, 78% involved mental illness, with 44% involving some form of psychosis (Rohde et al., 1998). These findings suggest that filicide involves a common theme of mental illness, and in many cases psychosis, which is much different than simply ‘‘not wanting’’ the child, as is usually the case with mothers in the neonaticide group.
Clinical features of parricide in patients with schizophrenia

In terms of denial, the psychotic individual exhibits a ‘‘complete lack of concern, anxiety, or emotional reaction about an immediate, serious, pressing need, conflict, or danger in [his or her] life’’ (Kernberg, 1984, p. 17). An example of denial includes a psychotic individual, who just murdered someone, with a complete lack of remorse or emotional reaction to the gravity of his or her action. Finally, with regard to omnipotence and devaluation, the psychotic individual experiences an exaggerated, inflated, grandiose self, and an emotionally degrading view of others (Kernberg, 1984). For example, the psychotic individual may believe that he or she is the ‘‘messiah,’’ or has some sort of special mission from God, and is responsible for killing ‘‘evil’’ people.
Motives for maternal filicide: Results from a study
with female forensic patients



16 of the 20 cases of filicide offenders were found to have psychiatric symptoms prior to their crime (Farooque & Ernst, 2003; Meyer & Oberman, 2001). Marks (1996) showed in his study of 45 mothers who killed their newborns that 77% used non wounding violence, such as suffocating and drowning. In contrast, women who killed older children tended to use more violent methods, such as killing by shaking, throwing to the ground, hitting, srangling, stabbing, and shooting
Motives for maternal filicide: Results from a study
with female forensic patients

[sami]

On the contrary, on the lead up to the tragedy she had her anti psychotic medication reduced by half and there was talks of sending the twins into foster care.

Several other researchers have confirmed some of Resnick’s (1969, 1970) findings. For instance, Marleau, Roy, Laporte, Webanck, and Poulin (1995) examined a sample of 17 women who killed or attempted to kill their children, concluding that most of the women had a history of mental illness and killed for ‘‘altruistic’’ reasons. Rohde, Raic, Varchmin- Schultheib, and Marneros (1998) investigated 33 cases of child murder and found that 9 cases involved ‘‘extended suicide,’’ that is, a type of filicide whereby the mother experiences suicidal ideation, which is carried out on her children. Of the 9 cases, 78% involved mental illness, with 44% involving some form of psychosis (Rohde et al., 1998). These findings suggest that filicide involves a common theme of mental illness, and in many cases psychosis, which is much different than simply ‘‘not wanting’’ the child, as is usually the case with mothers in the neonaticide group.
Clinical features of parricide in patients with schizophrenia

In terms of denial, the psychotic individual exhibits a ‘‘complete lack of concern, anxiety, or emotional reaction about an immediate, serious, pressing need, conflict, or danger in [his or her] life’’ (Kernberg, 1984, p. 17). An example of denial includes a psychotic individual, who just murdered someone, with a complete lack of remorse or emotional reaction to the gravity of his or her action. Finally, with regard to omnipotence and devaluation, the psychotic individual experiences an exaggerated, inflated, grandiose self, and an emotionally degrading view of others (Kernberg, 1984). For example, the psychotic individual may believe that he or she is the ‘‘messiah,’’ or has some sort of special mission from God, and is responsible for killing ‘‘evil’’ people.
Motives for maternal filicide: Results from a study
with female forensic patients



16 of the 20 cases of filicide offenders were found to have psychiatric symptoms prior to their crime (Farooque & Ernst, 2003; Meyer & Oberman, 2001). Marks (1996) showed in his study of 45 mothers who killed their newborns that 77% used non wounding violence, such as suffocating and drowning. In contrast, women who killed older children tended to use more violent methods, such as killing by shaking, throwing to the ground, hitting, srangling, stabbing, and shooting
Motives for maternal filicide: Results from a study
with female forensic patients

who said there was talks of sending twins into care