teddybear

[David1819]

who said there was talks of sending twins into care

I quote from the statement by Colins mother taken on 29/9/85

I remember just after Sheila's second illness, I spoke to June BAMBER on the phone. She conveyed to me then of her concern that through Sheila's illness, the boys might be put into foster homes.

[Steve_uk]

On the contrary, on the lead up to the tragedy she had her anti psychotic medication reduced by half and there was talks of sending the twins into foster care.

Several other researchers have confirmed some of Resnick’s (1969, 1970) findings. For instance, Marleau, Roy, Laporte, Webanck, and Poulin (1995) examined a sample of 17 women who killed or attempted to kill their children, concluding that most of the women had a history of mental illness and killed for ‘‘altruistic’’ reasons. Rohde, Raic, Varchmin- Schultheib, and Marneros (1998) investigated 33 cases of child murder and found that 9 cases involved ‘‘extended suicide,’’ that is, a type of filicide whereby the mother experiences suicidal ideation, which is carried out on her children. Of the 9 cases, 78% involved mental illness, with 44% involving some form of psychosis (Rohde et al., 1998). These findings suggest that filicide involves a common theme of mental illness, and in many cases psychosis, which is much different than simply ‘‘not wanting’’ the child, as is usually the case with mothers in the neonaticide group.
Clinical features of parricide in patients with schizophrenia

In terms of denial, the psychotic individual exhibits a ‘‘complete lack of concern, anxiety, or emotional reaction about an immediate, serious, pressing need, conflict, or danger in [his or her] life’’ (Kernberg, 1984, p. 17). An example of denial includes a psychotic individual, who just murdered someone, with a complete lack of remorse or emotional reaction to the gravity of his or her action. Finally, with regard to omnipotence and devaluation, the psychotic individual experiences an exaggerated, inflated, grandiose self, and an emotionally degrading view of others (Kernberg, 1984). For example, the psychotic individual may believe that he or she is the ‘‘messiah,’’ or has some sort of special mission from God, and is responsible for killing ‘‘evil’’ people.
Motives for maternal filicide: Results from a study
with female forensic patients



16 of the 20 cases of filicide offenders were found to have psychiatric symptoms prior to their crime (Farooque & Ernst, 2003; Meyer & Oberman, 2001). Marks (1996) showed in his study of 45 mothers who killed their newborns that 77% used non wounding violence, such as suffocating and drowning. In contrast, women who killed older children tended to use more violent methods, such as killing by shaking, throwing to the ground, hitting, srangling, stabbing, and shooting
Motives for maternal filicide: Results from a study
with female forensic patients

There was no talk of sending the twins into foster care. At the time of the tragedy Colin had them more or less full time with Sheila taking them at weekends, which the boys very much looked forward to. You are falling for the myths elaborated by Jeremy that final evening with(conveniently) him being the only onlooker to later recall events.

As for her medication she showed all the signs of overdose, not the opposite.

[Steve_uk]

I quote from the statement by Colins mother taken on 29/9/85

I remember just after Sheila's second illness, I spoke to June BAMBER on the phone. She conveyed to me then of her concern that through Sheila's illness, the boys might be put into foster homes.

This was speculation on June's part and possibly a half-hearted attempt to get Dorothy on board to bend Colin's ear to the Bambers having a greater role in their grandsons' welfare.

[sami]

There was no talk of sending the twins into foster care. At the time of the tragedy Colin had them more or less full time with Sheila taking them at weekends, which the boys very much looked forward to. You are falling for the myths elaborated by Jeremy that final evening with(conveniently) him being the only onlooker to later recall events.

As for her medication she showed all the signs of overdose, not the opposite.

exactly steve,one can never believe the word of a convicted killer about that nights events

[David1819]

This was speculation on June's part and possibly a half-hearted attempt to get Dorothy on board to bend Colin's ear to the Bambers having a greater role in their grandsons' welfare.

None of this can be corroborated, Your speculating in order to try and downplay its significance

[Steve_uk]

None of this can be corroborated, Your speculating in order to try and downplay its significance

David in the 1980s grandparents had no rights in law over their grandchildren whatsoever. I am downplaying nothing and take everything with an open mind as I'm sure members can vouch for by now.

[David1819]

David in the 1980s grandparents had no rights in law over their grandchildren whatsoever. I am downplaying nothing and take everything with an open mind as I'm sure members can vouch for by now.

If you read the quote from Colins mother, She sais they have concern about the children going into foster case because of her illness. Nowhere does it imply they were making the decision.

The important point is it corroborates Jeremy's version of events

[Steve_uk]

If you read the quote from Colins mother, She sais they have concern about the children going into foster case because of her illness. Nowhere does it imply they were making the decision.

The important point is it corroborates Jeremy's version of events

No you are forgetting the first day at Goldhanger with Jeremy blubbering so loudly he could be heard from the street, though this grief dissipated as soon as he crossed the 21 miles to France. Colin knew then that the discussion about foster care was phoney, even if at that point he had not rumbled Jeremy.

[sami]

If you read the quote from Colins mother, She sais they have concern about the children going into foster case because of her illness. Nowhere does it imply they were making the decision.

The important point is it corroborates Jeremy's version of events

all it corroborates is that jb may have known of this and used it to his advantage ,no way on earth can you prove that conversation took place that night

[sami]

I quote from the statement by Colins mother taken on 29/9/85

I remember just after Sheila's second illness, I spoke to June BAMBER on the phone. She conveyed to me then of her concern that through Sheila's illness, the boys might be put into foster homes.

have you got the statement with her signature on it,or can you post the link to it

[Caroline]

None of this can be corroborated, Your speculating in order to try and downplay its significance

No, you're up playing it and - just as Jeremy did.

[lookout]

Jeremy didn't " play anything up ". If you read Cal's book,it has connotations of him having been a " go-between " in the family,particularly when his mother repeated " why can't you be like Jeremy " as she'd referred to Sheila and her marriage to Colin,then the divorce not long after. The anger and guilt that Sheila was constantly made to feel knew no bounds,as even Jeremy felt the guilt by his mother repeating these comparisons.  This always drove Sheila mad with anger-----------as it naturally would when a parent always makes comparisons.

[Jane]

Jeremy didn't " play anything up ". If you read Cal's book,it has connotations of him having been a " go-between " in the family,particularly when his mother repeated " why can't you be like Jeremy " as she'd referred to Sheila and her marriage to Colin,then the divorce not long after. The anger and guilt that Sheila was constantly made to feel knew no bounds,as even Jeremy felt the guilt by his mother repeating these comparisons.  This always drove Sheila mad with anger-----------as it naturally would when a parent always makes comparisons.

Please can you provide examples of those times during which Sheila was "mad with anger" beyond what may be considered reasonable.

[lookout]

Please can you provide examples of those times during which Sheila was "mad with anger" beyond what may be considered reasonable.

By the sounds of things, pretty well during the time when Jeremy was still at home and whenever Sheila visited. Her and her mother seemed like a red rag to a bull every time they came into contact with each other.
Reference to this particular episode is on page 56 of CAL's book.

I do a lot of reading between lines as well as reading what the author writes,to get a fuller and more clearer picture----------I don't do " skimming " like a certain person did.

[Jane]

By the sounds of things, pretty well during the time when Jeremy was still at home and whenever Sheila visited. Her and her mother seemed like a red rag to a bull every time they came into contact with each other.
Reference to this particular episode is on page 56 of CAL's book.

I do a lot of reading between lines as well as reading what the author writes,to get a fuller and more clearer picture----------I don't do " skimming " like a certain person did.

Lookout, the very last thing that an author of "facts" will want/NEED are lines which can be read between!!!!!!!!!  I'm just trying to imagine how far I'd have got in college had i told my tutors that they were supposed to "read between the lines".