Author Topic: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test  (Read 21797 times)

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Neil

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2016, 07:18:AM »

Yeah I have attached the PDF below

I warn you mat this will BLOW YOUR MIND!  ::)
We've all seen this.  This isn't what Mat was asking for.  I wonder why the graph itself has not been made public.

Even if one is to trust tests of this kind, you've then got to get over the fact that this geezer out of Grays, was employed by one of the dodgiest lawyers on the planet. 

Offline Jane

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #76 on: March 10, 2016, 08:08:AM »
We've all seen this.  This isn't what Mat was asking for.  I wonder why the graph itself has not been made public.

Even if one is to trust tests of this kind, you've then got to get over the fact that this geezer out of Grays, was employed by one of the dodgiest lawyers on the planet.


I think it tells us how much validity is put on the results of a "lie detector" test, in that Jeremy's "pass" hasn't been announced in the press as "CONVICTED KILLER PROVED INNOCENT AFTER 30 YEARS I  PRISON"

Online lookout

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #77 on: March 10, 2016, 10:10:AM »
D'oh,I mentioned umpteen posts ago that these machines DON'T work.
A blood-pressure machine ( sphigmomenometer ) would work far better in testing stress,they're more accurate. Better still,an MRI scan of the brain.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #78 on: March 10, 2016, 11:45:AM »
D'oh,I mentioned umpteen posts ago that these machines DON'T work.
A blood-pressure machine ( sphigmomenometer ) would work far better in testing stress,they're more accurate. Better still,an MRI scan of the brain.

The polygraph measures blood pressure as part of the measurements

http://people.howstuffworks.com/lie-detector1.htm

MRI article - https://www.technologyreview.com/s/407278/imaging-deception-in-the-brain/

Particularly interesting paragraph - "the stress of being ACCUSED of a crime can also trigger stress" Having already been convicted with nothing to lose surely would lessen the stress?

"Polygraph tests rely on measures of stress, such as heart rate and blood pressure, which can shoot up when one is telling a lie. But the stress of being accused of a crime can also trigger a stress response, making it difficult for examiners to interpret the results. FMRI-based lie-detection systems seek to assess a more direct measure of deceit: the level of activity in brain areas linked with lying. Previous studies have shown that the brain appears more active when someone is telling a falsehood, especially the brain areas involved in resolving conflict and cognitive control. Scientists think that lying is more cognitively complex than telling the truth, and therefore it activates more of the brain"
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Online lookout

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #79 on: March 10, 2016, 12:02:PM »
The polygraph measures blood pressure as part of the measurements

http://people.howstuffworks.com/lie-detector1.htm

MRI article - https://www.technologyreview.com/s/407278/imaging-deception-in-the-brain/

Particularly interesting paragraph - "the stress of being ACCUSED of a crime can also trigger stress" Having already been convicted with nothing to lose surely would lessen the stress?

"Polygraph tests rely on measures of stress, such as heart rate and blood pressure, which can shoot up when one is telling a lie. But the stress of being accused of a crime can also trigger a stress response, making it difficult for examiners to interpret the results. FMRI-based lie-detection systems seek to assess a more direct measure of deceit: the level of activity in brain areas linked with lying. Previous studies have shown that the brain appears more active when someone is telling a falsehood, especially the brain areas involved in resolving conflict and cognitive control. Scientists think that lying is more cognitively complex than telling the truth, and therefore it activates more of the brain"






Elementary my dear Watson. ;D

Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #80 on: March 10, 2016, 12:03:PM »





Elementary my dear Watson. ;D

Did you read the articles Lookout?
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Online lookout

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2016, 12:08:PM »
Did you read the articles Lookout?






Yes.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #82 on: March 10, 2016, 12:43:PM »





Yes.

MRI might be a possibility but needs a lot more research - however, I agree that it sounds a LOT more promising than the polygraph.
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Offline Jan

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #83 on: March 10, 2016, 12:47:PM »
Jeremy's own words in the letter are enough for me.

The letter reads as if it was supposed to be read to his parents at their grave. The letter WAS read at the grave of his parents. You will believe Trudi and that is fine.

Actually its more complicated than that. Some comments I have read point to a different angle all together.
And if you had read what I posted you will see I don't support her action. But on this occasion I am not SURE she is telling lies.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #84 on: March 10, 2016, 12:50:PM »
Actually its more complicated than that. Some comments I have read point to a different angle all together.
And if you had read what I posted you will see I don't support her action. But on this occasion I am not SURE she is telling lies.

How is it more complicated? Seems pretty straight forward to me?
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Offline Jan

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #85 on: March 10, 2016, 12:52:PM »
The polygraph measures blood pressure as part of the measurements

http://people.howstuffworks.com/lie-detector1.htm

MRI article - https://www.technologyreview.com/s/407278/imaging-deception-in-the-brain/

Particularly interesting paragraph - "the stress of being ACCUSED of a crime can also trigger stress" Having already been convicted with nothing to lose surely would lessen the stress?

"Polygraph tests rely on measures of stress, such as heart rate and blood pressure, which can shoot up when one is telling a lie. But the stress of being accused of a crime can also trigger a stress response, making it difficult for examiners to interpret the results. FMRI-based lie-detection systems seek to assess a more direct measure of deceit: the level of activity in brain areas linked with lying. Previous studies have shown that the brain appears more active when someone is telling a falsehood, especially the brain areas involved in resolving conflict and cognitive control. Scientists think that lying is more cognitively complex than telling the truth, and therefore it activates more of the brain"

I would think ( the bit in red) would depend on how stressed and angry you are with trying to prove your innocence. Talking in general not  specifically.

Different people react to the fight for innocence in different ways surely?

Some would be resigned to a long  long fight - others might become ill and angry with the stress of bashing your head against a brick wall.

I would not think it is something you could generalise about

Offline maggie

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #86 on: March 10, 2016, 12:55:PM »
I would think ( the bit in red) would depend on how stressed and angry you are with trying to prove your innocence. Talking in general not  specifically.

Different people react to the fight for innocence in different ways surely?

Some would be resigned to a long  long fight - others might become ill and angry with the stress of bashing your head against a brick wall.

I would not think it is something you could generalise about
I agree jan, we are all different and all react to injustice or in fact anything, in different ways.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 12:57:PM by maggie »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #87 on: March 10, 2016, 01:03:PM »
I would think ( the bit in red) would depend on how stressed and angry you are with trying to prove your innocence. Talking in general not  specifically.

Different people react to the fight for innocence in different ways surely?

Some would be resigned to a long  long fight - others might become ill and angry with the stress of bashing your head against a brick wall.

I would not think it is something you could generalise about

If you couldn't 'generalise' it would make this whole machine a piece of useless trash. It actually relies of people having the SAME reaction to telling lies and THAT is a generalisation.

People do act differently but measuring behaviour DEPENDS on generalised factors. You couldn't measure human behaviour if the goal posts changed every time you tried and we would know nothing about our own species.
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Offline Jane

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #88 on: March 10, 2016, 01:27:PM »
If you couldn't 'generalise' it would make this whole machine a piece of useless trash. It actually relies of people having the SAME reaction to telling lies and THAT is a generalisation.

People do act differently but measuring behaviour DEPENDS on generalised factors. You couldn't measure human behaviour if the goal posts changed every time you tried and we would know nothing about our own species.


Machines do a fine job of doing what they're designed to do, ie, measuring physiological/neurological responses. However, they have no "thoughts/feelings" about the psychology behind the responses. As yet, only humans can do that.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Latest Vlog _ Jeremy's Polygraph Test
« Reply #89 on: March 10, 2016, 02:31:PM »

Machines do a fine job of doing what they're designed to do, ie, measuring physiological/neurological responses. However, they have no "thoughts/feelings" about the psychology behind the responses. As yet, only humans can do that.

Yes and it depends on a LOT of generalised factors things we 'expect' to happen versus things we 'don't' - if there was no 'norm' there would be nothing to measure anything against.
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