Has the Jeremy Bamber case come to the end of the road?

[guest154]

BS! Sheila had several hours.

She had from the phonecall. Until the police arrived outside. I don't care about any of your opinion or theories as to why she had longer, so don't waste your time.

[Caroline]

BS! Sheila had several hours.

Hoe did she have several hours? Oh I see, you mean she killed everyone while the police were outside?  . How come the operator listening in, only heard the dog barking and the police and Jeremy - didn't hear a thing?

[Adam]

Going by the evidence it is 100% certain that Neville and Sheila died between 3.26am (the time Jeremy said Neville phoned the police) and 3.48, which I believe is the time people arrived at WHF.

It is 99.9% certain that June, Nicolas and Daniel died during this time. Neville would not wait for Sheila to fire 16 bullets into them before ringing the police.

Could someone as frail and uncoordinated as Sheila have done everthing 22 minutes ?

In no particular order here are the main things she did -

The kitchen fight:

The 2002 appeal says -

42. ' The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back. The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun'

A professional boxer would be proud to have committed those sorts of injuries. And he has 36 minutes. Neville was not a professional boxer. But still put up a tremendous fight according to the judge.

Time estimate, 15 minutes.


Chamering and loading the rifle, at least twice:

Sheila may have loaded twice or five times. It gets progressively harder to load each bullet. Either way it is not easy for someone with 'limited' experience with guns.

Each re loading meant going to the kitchen, possibly from upstairs in a big house.

Time estimate, 5 minutes:


Firing 26 bullets:

This meant travelling to three different locations, both up and downstairs in a big house. 

To get close enough, aim and accurately fire so many torso and head shots would not be quick.

Time estimate, 5 minutes:


Checking everyone is dead:

There is no point Sheila committing suicide unless her nearest and dearest are joining her.

Checking may have been done continuously. Or just once. Either way it is still travelling into different rooms and going up and down stairs in a big house.

Sheila of course heated the rifle and burned Neville's back.

Time estimate, 10 minutes:


Washing and changing (optional):

Many  supporters claim Sheila did this.

Time estimate, 10 minutes.


Getting and reading the bible

The bible was found next to her. If she read the passage quoted, that was a long passage.

Time estimate, 10 minutes


Writing a suicide note (optional):

If you believe Sheila did this, it is at least another ten minutes.

Time estimate, 10 minutes.


Put the silencer away and shoot herself:

Time estimate, 10 minutes.


These are generous time estimations. Sheila was in a crazy rage and not organised at all, to do some of the above in an organized and efficient way. Someone so un coordinated may have taken hours to do all of the above.

Anyway, the generous total time it would take for Sheila to do all the things she was supposed to have done, is 55/75 minutes,  (two things are optional).  Which is 33/53 minutes over the 22 minutes she had.

If we go by the time Bamber said Neville called him, 3.10am, the 55/75 minutes is 17/37minutes over the 38 minutes Sheila had to get everything done.

Supporters are in a no win situation. They could go against Bamber and the OS and claim Neville did not phone the police, but that still leaves a 17/37 minute shortfall.

[maggie]

Going by the evidence it is 100% certain that Neville and Sheila died between 3.26am (the time Jeremy said Neville phoned the police) and 3.48, which I believe is the time people arrived at WHF.

It is 99.9% certain that June, Nicolas and Daniel died during this time. Neville would not wait for Sheila to fire 16 bullets into them before ringing the police.

Could someone as frail and uncoordinated as Sheila have done everthing 22 minutes ?

In no particular order here are the main things she did -

The kitchen fight:

The 2002 appeal says -

42. ' The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back. The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun'

A professional boxer would be proud to have committed those sorts of injuries. And he has 36 minutes. Neville was not a professional boxer. But still put up a tremendous fight according to the judge.

Time estimate, 15 minutes.


Chamering and loading the rifle, at least twice:

Sheila may have loaded twice or five times. It gets progressively harder to load each bullet. Either way it is not easy for someone with 'limited' experience with guns.

Each re loading meant going to the kitchen, possibly from upstairs in a big house.

Time estimate, 5 minutes:


Firing 26 bullets:

This meant travelling to three different locations, both up and downstairs in a big house. 

To get close enough, aim and accurately fire so many torso and head shots would not be quick.

Time estimate, 5 minutes:


Checking everyone is dead:

There is no point Sheila committing suicide unless her nearest and dearest are joining her.

Checking may have been done continuously. Or just once. Either way it is still travelling into different rooms and going up and down stairs in a big house.

Sheila of course heated the rifle and burned Neville's back.

Time estimate, 10 minutes:


Washing and changing (optional):

Many  supporters claim Sheila did this.

Time estimate, 10 minutes.


Getting and reading the bible

The bible was found next to her. If she read the passage quoted, that was a long passage.

Time estimate, 10 minutes


Writing a suicide note (optional):

If you believe Sheila did this, it is at least another ten minutes.

Time estimate, 10 minutes.


Put the silencer away and shoot herself:

Time estimate, 10 minutes.


These are generous time estimations. Sheila was in a crazy rage and not organised at all, to do some of the above in an organized and efficient way. Someone so un coordinated may have taken hours to do all of the above.

Anyway, the generous total time it would take for Sheila to do all the things she was supposed to have done, is 55/75 minutes,  (two things are optional).  Which is 33/53 minutes over the 22 minutes she had.

If we go by the time Bamber said Neville called him, 3.10am, the 55/75 minutes is 17/37minutes over the 38 minutes Sheila had to get everything done.

Supporters are in a no win situation. They could go against Bamber and the OS and claim Neville did not phone the police, but that still leaves a 17/37 minute shortfall.

I am confused Adam, I thought you believed JB killed the family. How on earth was he able to kill everyone and run back to WHF and drive back again in that half an hour? I am so surprised at this statement I am wondering if I have misunderstood what you have posted.

[Adam]

The post is nothing to do with Bamber. It only mentions Sheila's name.

It is seeing how long it would take for Sheila to do everything.  She had either a 22 or 38 minute window. Dependent on whether people believe Neville called the police.

It would take Sheila 55 minutes without the ritual washing and suicide note, 75 minutes if you include both. 

Which leaves a shortfall of at least 17 minutes, at the most 53 minutes. Dependent on whether you believe Neville called the police.

[Jane]

I am confused Adam, I thought you believed JB killed the family. How on earth was he able to kill everyone and run back to WHF and drive back again in that half an hour? I am so surprised at this statement I am wondering if I have misunderstood what you have posted.

Maggie, had you not quoted Adam, I wouldn't have bothered to read his post SURELY there's a HUGE discrepancy here!!!!  If Nevill died between those times given by Adam, how was it possible for Jeremy to be making calls from his cottage? He'd have had to have peddled like Chris Hoyle to have got back from WHF to Goldhanger -and far too breathless to speak- divest himself of the clothes he'd been wearing and get back, cool as a cucumber, to WHF. No wonder he asked the police to pick him up. He probably would have felt too exhausted to drive......................I always said that Adam was supporters' greatest weapon

[Adam]

Maggie, had you not quoted Adam, I wouldn't have bothered to read what his post SURELY there's a HUGE discrepancy here!!!!  If Nevill died between those times given by Adam, how was it possible for Jeremy to be making calls from his cottage? He'd have had to have peddled like Chris Hoyle to have got back from WHF to Goldhanger -and far too breathless to speak- divest himself of the clothes he'd been wearing and get back, cool as a cucumber, to WHF. No wonder he asked the police to pick him up. He probably would have felt too exhausted to drive......................I always said that Adam was supporters' greatest weapon

What are you on ?

Where does my post mention Bamber ?

You do read my posts because you always reply. And changed stance.

You spend all day on here. Be helpful if you read posts properly.

I don't read you're posts, unless they relate to me. They are too meandering and add nothing new. I would read you're threads. But you never create any. 

Supporting Bamber for 30 years because you didn't like what Julie was wearing. 

[Jane]

What are you on ?

Where does my post mention Bamber ?

You do read my posts because you always reply. And changed stance.

You spend all day on here. Be helpful if you read posts.

Supporting Bamber for 30 years because you didn't like what Julie was wearing. 

No need to act like a xxxxx, Adam, even if it is something you excel at. Oh, and I want's the only one to interpret your post the way I did.

[Adam]

No need to act like a xxxxx, Adam, even if it is something you excel at. Oh, and I want's the only one to interpret your post the way I did.

'Could someone as un cordinated as Sheila have done all this in 22 minutes ?' It's in the thread post.

If you and Maggie want to believe I am referring to Bamber. Whose name I did not mention, feel free.

[Adam]

Anyway, until April goaded me, post152 shows it was impossible for Sheila to do everything in a 22 or 38 minute time period.

Forensic or circumstantial evidence showing certain guilt ?  Take you're pick. Perhaps a bit of both.

[Jane]

Going by the evidence it is 100% certain that Neville and Sheila died between 3.26am (the time Jeremy said Neville phoned the police) and 3.48, which I believe is the time people arrived at WHF.

If you want to make your point over, perhaps you should make it clear in the first line of your post OR should a poll be set up to ask how many posters bother to read your posts fully.

[Jane]

Anyway, until April goaded me, thread 152 shows it was impossible for Sheila to do everything in a 22 or 38 minute time period.

Forensic or circumstantial evidence showing certain guilt ?  Take you're pick. Perhaps a bit of both.

There may be 152 threads but there's no guarantee that they're read. By the way, who's this April you keep referring to?

[Adam]

If you want to make your point over, perhaps you should make it clear in the first line of your post OR should a poll be set up to ask how many posters bother to read your posts fully.

So you just read the first sentence ?

Anyway, supporters now need to knock off between 17 to 53 minutes of the time it took Sheila to do everything. She only had a 22 or 38 minute window.

[Adam]

There may be 152 threads but there's no guarantee that they're read. By the way, who's this April you keep referring to?

Sorry, meant post 152.

[guest2181]

Going by the evidence it is 100% certain that Neville and Sheila died between 3.26am (the time Jeremy said Neville phoned the police) and 3.48, which I believe is the time people arrived at WHF.

It is 99.9% certain that June, Nicolas and Daniel died during this time. Neville would not wait for Sheila to fire 16 bullets into them before ringing the police.

Could someone as frail and uncoordinated as Sheila have done everthing 22 minutes ?

In no particular order here are the main things she did -

The kitchen fight:

The 2002 appeal says -

42. ' The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back. The linear marks were consistent with Mr Bamber having been struck with a long blunt object, possibly a gun'

Much of the bruising was caused by the bullet wounds. 15 mins is an awfully long time.
I would say 5mins.

A professional boxer would be proud to have committed those sorts of injuries. And he has 36 minutes. Neville was not a professional boxer. But still put up a tremendous fight according to the judge.

Time estimate, 15 minutes.


Chamering and loading the rifle, at least twice:

Sheila may have loaded twice or five times. It gets progressively harder to load each bullet. Either way it is not easy for someone with 'limited' experience with guns.

Each re loading meant going to the kitchen, possibly from upstairs in a big house.

I have tried loading the magazine and yes it can be a bit fiddly but I could still load it fully in 1 minute. I'm also allowing a reload in the fight with Neville.
Including going and getting them, I'd say 2 or 3 mins.

Time estimate, 5 minutes:


Firing 26 bullets:

This meant travelling to three different locations, both up and downstairs in a big house. 

To get close enough, aim and accurately fire so many torso and head shots would not be quick.

There is some overlap here, Neville is already included, as is going for reloads.
So I would say 2 or 3 mins.

Time estimate, 5 minutes:


Checking everyone is dead:

There is no point Sheila committing suicide unless her nearest and dearest are joining her.

Checking may have been done continuously. Or just once. Either way it is still travelling into different rooms and going up and down stairs in a big house.

Sheila of course heated the rifle and burned Neville's back.

I think you've just invented 10 minutes, it would be obvious whether people were dead.
I'm not allowing any time for this.

Time estimate, 10 minutes:


Washing and changing (optional):

Many  supporters claim Sheila did this.

I'm not allowing any time for this.

Time estimate, 10 minutes.


Getting and reading the bible

The bible was found next to her. If she read the passage quoted, that was a long passage.

I'm not sure about this, 10 minutes is an age and she might not have even read it (in our make believe story).
To be generous, I'll give a couple of minutes, so 2 mins.


Time estimate, 10 minutes


Writing a suicide note (optional):

If you believe Sheila did this, it is at least another ten minutes.

Nah, not for me, I'm not allowing any time for this.

Time estimate, 10 minutes.


Put the silencer away and shoot herself:

It's a fair sized house, but it's not exactly Buckingham Palace.
Ignoring the incapacitating wound to her neck and absence of blood, I'll give a couple of minutes for this.
2mins.

Time estimate, 10 minutes.


These are generous time estimations. Sheila was in a crazy rage and not organised at all, to do some of the above in an organized and efficient way. Someone so un coordinated may have taken hours to do all of the above.

Anyway, the generous total time it would take for Sheila to do all the things she was supposed to have done, is 55/75 minutes,  (two things are optional).  Which is 33/53 minutes over the 22 minutes she had.

If we go by the time Bamber said Neville called him, 3.10am, the 55/75 minutes is 17/37minutes over the 38 minutes Sheila had to get everything done.

Supporters are in a no win situation. They could go against Bamber and the OS and claim Neville did not phone the police, but that still leaves a 17/37 minute shortfall.

So I make it about 15 minutes, it seems like plenty of time.