Was there a hitman (or two) ?

[sherlock]

Was there a hitman or two ?
If you are sure Jeremy is guilty then please explain :

Why are you sure there was no hitman ?
Lets assume Malcolm McDonalds alibi was true.
It is possible McDonald arranged other hitmen and a very good alibi - is it not ?
It is possible Jeremy hired other hitmen and simply lied about the name of the hitman to Julie - is it not ?

What evidence is there that Jeremy did the deed himself ?

You may think there is enough evidence of Jeremys involvement.
But why are you SO sure that there was not some truth in the hitman allegation ?
Surely there is a real lack of evidence that Jeremy was physically there during the killings ?
Why are you so sure he did the deed himself ?
Are you convinced one or more other killers haven't escaped entirely to keep on killing others ?
If so please explain your reasoning in detail ...

He told Julie the absolute complete truth - with this one exception - are you sure the bit about a hitman was not also based on truth ?

If there were others involved it might explain Bambers inability to make a confession ... They ALL confess eventually for a variety of reasons- why hasn't Bamber ?

By the way Essex Police have confirmed to me that there is a current Essex Police investigation into the Bamber case.

What this means is anybody's guess.
Any clues on this anyone ?

Sherlocks back as i am still puzzled by this case - so hello everybody !

[John]

The evidence is consistent with Jeremy being involved so there is no question of his guilt. He could very well have involved a third party to do the dirty deed but there is no evidence to support it.  That said however, there is every possibility that a third party knew of the plan ahead of time and could also have faced a conspiracy to murder charge.

[sherlock]

The evidence is consistent with Jeremy being involved so there is no question of his guilt. He could very well have involved a third party to do the dirty deed but there is no evidence to support it.  That said however, there is every possibility that a third party knew of the plan ahead of time and could also have faced a conspiracy to murder charge.

The evidence to support it includes

1)Jeremys statement to Julie,
2)a police officer thinking they may have seen movement in a window,
3)a police officer thinking they saw a rifle in the window that was moved by someone other than Jeremy,
4) a possible sighting of a hunched up man leaving the scene,
5) lack of marks on Jeremy,
6) no violence at all in Jeremys past,
7)some people say he did not have it in him to shoot people personally,
no one saw Jeremy enter or leave his cottage at the relevant times
9) a possible sighting of a number of vehicles parked outside his cottage on the evening of the murders
10) He certainly knew some very dodgy people in more than one country

any other possible evidence to add to the list any one ?

When you say "Third party" do you mean Julie ?
If not could you name who else you suspect of possibly having pre knowledge of the crime ?
I hope you agree this is worth thinking about very seriously

[John]

When you say "Third party" do you mean Julie ?
If not could you name who else you suspect of possibly having pre knowledge of the crime ?
I hope you agree this is worth thinking about very seriously

I'm afraid I can't say for legal reasons.

[sherlock]

I'm afraid I can't say for legal reasons.

are your legal reasons

a) fear of being sued by this person ?
b) because of ongoing relevant legal proceedings ?
c) you are bound by confidentiality ?
d) another legal reason ?

[Jan]

if you are going to use that theory how do you know there was not someone there threatening Neville to make the call and they just wanted Jeremy at the house as well.

Everyone is willing to believe Jeremy was clever enough to stage a murder suicide - how do you know there was no other person clever enough to do the same thing ?

Hence Why the call did not say about shots - just trying to get him to the house.

You may say lack of motive - but if we don't know who was responsible how do we know the motive ?

[Jan]

 "By the way Essex Police have confirmed to me that there is a current Essex Police investigation into the Bamber case"

  I have heard something similar from an independent source.

But I am not hopeful that it will led to anything.

[Caroline]

The evidence to support it includes

1)Jeremys statement to Julie,
2)a police officer thinking they may have seen movement in a window,
3)a police officer thinking they saw a rifle in the window that was moved by someone other than Jeremy,
4) a possible sighting of a hunched up man leaving the scene,
5) lack of marks on Jeremy,
6) no violence at all in Jeremys past,
7)some people say he did not have it in him to shoot people personally,
no one saw Jeremy enter or leave his cottage at the relevant times
9) a possible sighting of a number of vehicles parked outside his cottage on the evening of the murders
10) He certainly knew some very dodgy people in more than one country

any other possible evidence to add to the list any one ?

When you say "Third party" do you mean Julie ?
If not could you name who else you suspect of possibly having pre knowledge of the crime ?
I hope you agree this is worth thinking about very seriously

If you think the supposed sighting of a movement in the wondow is indicative of a hitman - you'll need to explain how this person got out without being seen.

[nugnug]

if he hired a hitman hes still guilty.

[Caroline]

if you are going to use that theory how do you know there was not someone there threatening Neville to make the call and they just wanted Jeremy at the house as well.

Everyone is willing to believe Jeremy was clever enough to stage a murder suicide - how do you know there was no other person clever enough to do the same thing ?

Hence Why the call did not say about shots - just trying to get him to the house.

You may say lack of motive - but if we don't know who was responsible how do we know the motive ?

The reaso this theory falls flat, is because the spoof caller couldn't know for sure if Jeremy would come to WHF or if he would call the police. Such a person would make themselves a sitting duck with a house full of bodies.

[sherlock]

if you are going to use that theory how do you know there was not someone there threatening Neville to make the call and they just wanted Jeremy at the house as well.

Everyone is willing to believe Jeremy was clever enough to stage a murder suicide - how do you know there was no other person clever enough to do the same thing ?

Hence Why the call did not say about shots - just trying to get him to the house.

You may say lack of motive - but if we don't know who was responsible how do we know the motive ?

A very interesting theory but i think this is better discussed in a different thread.
This thread i hope is purely to draw out from "guilters" why they are sure Jeremy did not hire a hitman.
So far no "guilters" are prepared to state they are sure of this.
So no "guilters" are prepared to say they are SURE Jeremy did the deed himself ?
They say they know from the evidence he is guilty of being responsible.
They do not however seem to be sure he did it himself.
Like i say i hope we can keep this thread to this narrow discussion

[Caroline]

The reason this theory falls flat, is because the spoof caller couldn't know for sure if Jeremy would come to WHF or if he would call the police. Such a person would make themselves a sitting duck with a house full of bodies.

[nugnug]

if you are going to use that theory how do you know there was not someone there threatening Neville to make the call and they just wanted Jeremy at the house as well.

Everyone is willing to believe Jeremy was clever enough to stage a murder suicide - how do you know there was no other person clever enough to do the same thing ?

Hence Why the call did not say about shots - just trying to get him to the house.

You may say lack of motive - but if we don't know who was responsible how do we know the motive ?

i thought it could be a spoof caller as well but its hard to explian how they would of got away in time.

[Caroline]

i thought it could be a spoof caller as well but its hard to explian how they would of got away in time.

Thank you nugs, least you can see this as a problem. If he wanted to kill Jeremy too, why wait until he's gone home? But Jeremy said his 'father' called - I doubt he would be mistaken by the voice of his own dad.

[sherlock]

"By the way Essex Police have confirmed to me that there is a current Essex Police investigation into the Bamber case"

  I have heard something similar from an independent source.

But I am not hopeful that it will led to anything.

Thank you for that.
It is a fact there is an ongoing investigation.