Questions about the bible :

[sherlock]

Whilst it remains true that Adam has zero biblical knowledge, I DO have some knowledge. You say that the page on which it was open makes it clear to anyone who has a GOOD knowledge of the bible. GOOD is the key word, don't you think. I was able to type in "Bible verses relating to forgiveness" -something which wouldn't have been available then- the psalm, thus the page on which the bible was opened was not given in any of the copious lists given although I appreciate I didn't view them all. I can only suggest that June -whose knowledge of the bible was far greater than my own- was reading this particular psalm, perhaps it was a favourite, and Jeremy picked up the already opened bible and placed it, as he believed, appropriately. The point I'm trying to make is that if I, who was bought up with regular church and Sunday School attendances and reasonable working knowledge of the bible, now having the availability of search engines at my disposal, was unable to pull out a relevant verse off the top of my head, I'm perfectly certain that Jeremy didn't.

It is possible June was reading the Bible and had it open at this page - i am sure she had read every page of the Bible many times ...

But as you can see from my reply to Adam above it is for sure very relevant to seeking forgiveness after having committed murder - which is why i rule this particular possibility out - this edition of the Bible has roughly 1,344 pages and even accounting for the fact it was open at a double page still leaves only a 1 in 672 chance of it being open at this page by random coincidence ...

And that is too unlikely for even Sherlock to consider possible ...

And of course from our limited knowledge of Jeremy it would appear unlikely that he would have had the required knowledge - but as Adam said he had plenty of time (if guilty) to prepare and research - so it is a possibility ...

Another possibility is that if a hitman was involved then the hitman would have had this knowledge - from Sheilas account of Jeremy's confession to her he allegedly stated that the hitman had planted the Bible to make it look like Sheila did it - although the alleged confession made no mention of the relevance of the particular page it was left open at ...

The only certain fact (barring a 1 in 672 coincidence) is that whoever committed (or ordered) the murders had the required knowledge of the relevance of this page (Psalm 51) ...

[Jane]

Adam - to be clear the page the Bible was open at is not really relevant to suicide - it is in fact relevant to murder and specifically seeking God's forgiveness after having committed murder ...

To re quote myself from a previous post

"This afternoon i have spent 2 hours talking with the Church of England Vicar Reverend Richard Fisher - he is the Vicar of St Johns Church in Loughton, Essex.
I asked him if a Christian had murdered someone what passage of the Bible would they turn to for comfort and/or forgiveness.
He told me what i already knew - Psalm 51
He has been a Vicar for 26 years - he knows what he is talking about more than ANYONE who has had any involvement in this case ..."


So i hope you and others can now take this as fact ...

You are right to suggest that Jeremy Bamber may have researched and/or known this - but he did not bring this up at trial. His lawyer did try to make enquiries about the pages significance and this might or might not have been at Jeremy's suggestion - we simply do not know ...

His defence team failed badly in not pursuing this further - they tried to raise it in his 2002 appeal but the "expert" opinion they got was sadly lacking on this point - it is a shame they did not ask the Reverend Richard Fisher to give his opinion instead ...

I am happy that you have stated you are a young person - i had come to the conclusion that you are indeed a young person - and the fullest of respect to you for being such an active member of these forums at a young age - it shows you care about important issues in society ...

I suspect that vicars have as many differing opinions as do doctors. I don't know how you might have put the question to the Rev Richard Fisher, but if you asked if someone seeking God's forgiveness would turn to a specific Psalm, the answer will undoubtedly be in the affirmative. However, if you asked an open question, you'd probably still be listening to the options. To test this out I'll ask my friend -who is a vicar- the open question.

It occurs to be that you may be incredibly naive in some of the conclusions you arrive at. Not everyone is a vicar and not everyone tell the truth. I live in hope that you actually see things rather more clearly and that your tongue is firmly in your cheek

[sherlock]

I suspect that vicars have as many differing opinions as do doctors. I don't know how you might have put the question to the Rev Richard Fisher, but if you asked if someone seeking God's forgiveness would turn to a specific Psalm, the answer will undoubtedly be in the affirmative. However, if you asked an open question, you'd probably still be listening to the options. To test this out I'll ask my friend -who is a vicar- the open question.

It occurs to be that you may be incredibly naive in some of the conclusions you arrive at. Not everyone is a vicar and not everyone tell the truth. I live in hope that you actually see things rather more clearly and that your tongue is firmly in your cheek

To be clear i did not mention Psalm 51 - i simply asked what passage of the Bible some one would turn to in these circumstances - he came up straight away with Psalm 51 - it came from him and not me ...

I am very far from naive and so you know the Rev Richard Fisher really is a Church of England Vicar with 26 years experience :

     "https://loughtonchurch.org.uk/?page_id=147"

I would highly recommend anyone to attend one of his Services ...

I would of course be interested to hear your Vicar friends opinion on the matter ...

[Jane]

To be clear i did not mention Psalm 51 - i simply asked what passage of the Bible some one would turn to in these circumstances - he came up straight away with Psalm 51 - it came from him and not me ...

I am very far from naive and so you know the Rev Richard Fisher really is a Church of England Vicar with 26 years experience :

     "https://loughtonchurch.org.uk/?page_id=147"

I would highly recommend anyone to attend one of his Services ...

I would of course be interested to hear your Vicar friends opinion on the matter ...

My comment had nothing to do with the Rev Richard Fisher. Is he you local vicar or did you just pick one at random?

[sherlock]

My comment had nothing to do with the Rev Richard Fisher. Is he you local vicar or did you just pick one at random?

You surely were not suggesting that Adam was lying about being a young person ?

Along with others on this forum i will not answer any questions that may or may not help to identify me ...

And if i did tell you who my local Vicar is you might be somewhat surprised ...

[Jane]

You surely were not suggesting that Adam was lying about being a young person ?

Along with others on this forum i will not answer any questions that may or may not help to identify me ...

And if i did tell you who my local Vicar is you might be somewhat surprised ...

You're surely not suggesting I was?

Hm, probably wise...............especially if you have anything to hide OR you value your privacy.

Varry intarestink.

[Caroline]

You surely were not suggesting that Adam was lying about being a young person ?

Along with others on this forum i will not answer any questions that may or may not help to identify me ...

And if i did tell you who my local Vicar is you might be somewhat surprised ...

Personally, I wouldn't care.

[Adam]

Most scenarios would result in June's bible not being next to Sheila -

Sheila did not read the bible.

She read the bible but it frowns upon murder / suicide.

She read other religious books which supported murder/suicide, so would read these prior to suicide.

She had her own bible.

She read the bible and then put it back where she found it.

She read the bible but did not want to read June's, who she had just killed.

She was not calm enough to read anything after killing five people and having a violent kitchen fight.

She did not have a torch to read the bible in the dark upstairs bedroom. The police would have seen the bedroom light go on.

She did not read the bible before murdering everyone. So why read it before committing suicide ?

The murder suicide was planned by Sheila and she had read the bible earlier in the evening. So no reason why it should be next to her on the floor.


The most plausible reason the bible was next to Sheila, is it was an easy plant for Bamber.

[lookout]

Sheila wasn't interested in the Bible. It was only her mother.

[Adam]

Sheila wasn't interested in the Bible. It was only her mother.

Do you think Bamber planted the bible next to her ?

[lookout]

No I don't.

[Adam]

No I don't.

Who do you believe put the bible next to Sheila ?

[lookout]

Her mother-------who else ?

[guest154]

Her mother-------who else ?

You think June was killed AFTER Sheila? If Sheila is the killer - How does that work? 

[lookout]

What's more,it was thrown down as opposed to it having been put/placed down. Unless it had been bookmarked in any way,and I'm not talking about which pages the blood was there,it didn't fall in any particular page which has been quoted as being from Psalm 51 onwards.

Even the Bible had done the rounds,like the rifle had----on the chest,by her side,then on the floor.