Does anybody believe in the Devil?

[mike tesko]

Does anybody believe in the Devil?

How far away from WHF do you think these pictures were taken?

What kind of an effect would seeing such images, have had on the mind of someone like Sheila Caffell whose mind was tormented, by God, and the devil?

[mike tesko]

Imagine, That just before retiring for the night, after spending supper with her parents, and having a heated debate about the future of her two young children, that she went for a short walk, only to be confronted with images such as these? The devil lurking close by, could such imagery if she had seen it, caused the situation to deteriorate?

[andrea]

i havent read or heard anywhere that sheila took a walk on the night in question, if she did then she may have just seen it for what it was... a tree.


i think the images of the church the keira posted may have had some negative affect, but its just speculation.

but going back to the thread question "do you believe in the devil" i personally dont but im an athiest so i would say that wouldnt i 

[grahameb]

Perhaps Mike that these pictures say more about you than they do about Sheila. Maybe you're plumbing the depths a bit?

[Alias]

Cool pictures, I like them; but they have nothing to do with Sheila! 

[chochokeira]

i havent read or heard anywhere that sheila took a walk on the night in question, if she did then she may have just seen it for what it was... a tree.


i think the images of the church the keira posted may have had some negative affect, but its just speculation.

but going back to the thread question "do you believe in the devil" i personally dont but im an athiest so i would say that wouldnt i 

I think you're right, andrea, everything of this nature is pure speculation without some connection being established. All we know as far as I can see is that Sheila and June were connected to the monastery and the story of Sheila running out of the monastery in the grip of a psychotic episode. What's needed is hard evidence.

In view of those stories and of my own experience at the monastery, I do think this might be an area which perhaps needs further exploration. Such monasteries act as retreats for people who are ill or psychologically disturbed. A number of orthodox monasteries and churches have been shown to be involved in appalling scandals involving abuse of worshippers and of monks and nuns plus all manner of disturbing goings on.

One such abuse scandal affecting a monastery in New York which is affiliated to the one at Tolleshunt Knights involves allegations of sexual abuse, fraud and that the Bishop was found to have a gun. Most odd.

[chochokeira]

Scandal at the Patriarchal and Stavropegic Monastery of St. Irene Chrysovalantou in Astoria, New York

"NEW YORK – Bishop Vikentios of Apameia has made stunning allegations about Metropolitan Paisios of Tyana...Bishop Vikentios made revelations of alleged serious excesses by the Metropolitan, including that he was involved with people of both sexes, including the young nun, Christonymphi, who now has given up the Monastic vows and talked to the police. Bishop Vikentios also revealed that, according to his information, the former nun had been pregnant but did not know by whom. Simultaneously, Bishop Vikentios asked “forgiveness from the victims’ of Paisios,” at least one of whom, Andreas Georgiou, is already launching a lawsuit against the Monastery and the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Other alleged victims are expected to follow.

Bishop Vikentios confirmed reports that a gun was found by the Patriarchal Exarchy in the room of Metropolitan Paisios and that he also sold the golden offerings known as tamata of the faithful at the Monastery’s Greek festival, also taking much of the gold to Greece, which was melted and made hierarchical crosses and pictorials. Bishop Vikentios alleged that even his own life is at risk..."

http://www.monomakhos.com/2010/12/bp-vikentios-accuses-bp-paisios-of-perversion-are-they-even-real-bishops/

A Bishop from the Patriarchal and Stavropegic Monastery of St. John the Baptist at Tolleshunt Knights monastery was part of a three person team sent by the church to investigate the allegations. The accused Bishop was, I've read, told to get out of America. There are now apparently accusations that this Bishop was let off when he should have remained in the US to face the FBI's charges.

[hat explosion]

I definetly think bamber is guilty if this is the new evidence

[sc82]

Perhaps Mike that these pictures say more about you than they do about Sheila. Maybe you're plumbing the depths a bit?

I'm afraid I have to agree with Grahame on this one, Mike

[chochokeira]

I definetly think bamber is guilty if this is the new evidence

Rather quick off the mark with your decision for a newbie, HE.

This isn't new evidence, it's background material, exploding head...sorry, exploding hat. I am not for one moment suggesting that the Essex monastery has the problems of the New York one. The issue I'm raising, albeit rather clumsily here, is that its widely accepted that fundamentalist religion tends to have a disproportionate share of abuse problems, perhaps linked to its authoritarian faith structure. Indeed, some would regard its authoritarianism as a form of abuse in itself. Are some religious fundamentalists attracted by tight control structures which can sometimes lend themselves to abuse? Perhaps it might help us to understand Sheila and June if we locate their obsessive religious fundamentalism within this sort of context?

[grahameb]

I definetly think bamber is guilty if this is the new evidence

No. But this is definitely new evidence:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,725.0.html

[Alias]

I definetly think bamber is guilty if this is the new evidence

Rather quick off the mark with your decision for a newbie, HE.

This isn't new evidence, it's background material, exploding head...sorry, exploding hat. I am not for one moment suggesting that the Essex monastery has the problems of the New York one. The issue I'm raising, albeit rather clumsily here, is that its widely accepted that fundamentalist religion tends to have a disproportionate share of abuse problems, perhaps linked to its authoritarian faith structure. Indeed, some would regard its authoritarianism as a form of abuse in itself. Are some religious fundamentalists attracted by tight control structures which can sometimes lend themselves to abuse? Perhaps it might help us to understand Sheila and June if we locate their obsessive religious fundamentalism within this sort of context?

I think that hat explosion was being sarcastic. If so - quite funny! 

[smiffy]

think of the strange note attributed to Sheila

please
  please
    please 
and there were 5 number 3's

lets count the 3 pleases as another number 3


so we have six number 3's

lets do some sums  3+3= 6
                                3+3=6
                                3+3=6


or phonetically  let please = police..
like when singing a tom jones hit...police release me ..let me go  la la la la
                                                       please release me...let me go..la la la la

same with the 6 number 3's   but this time ...3 times 3 = 9
                                                                       3 times 3 = 9
                                                                       3 times 3 = 9

Did sheila listen in on Nevilles phone call to JB... ?  When Nevill used the word PLEASE....did she find this funny so went and wrote the please down 3 times.....amusement in his desperation?
or did she connect phonetically and for a joke  think  police ,police police =999
could this be what the numbers and the please mean...again ..as Neville had called the police?


maybe its all nonsense but it may be right somewhere along the line..no one knows..

ps...an atheist .

[nugnug]

do we know for fact she wrote this note.

[andrea]

this note has been mentioned on this forum already.


imo it looks to me like a child has written it, the "3" look like a child has written them they have curly bits on them, the writing also drifts upwards in parts.

i cant copy and paste or would put the thread up where the note is shown and discussed