New Technology

[guest154]

Well doesn't that make life easier if she was standing ? 

She wasn't standing whether she shot herself or Bamber shot her.

[lookout]

She wasn't standing whether she shot herself or Bamber shot her.

I didn't intimate that she was standing,or hadn't you noticed ?

[Jane]

The second shot would have been more akin to her having been in a standing position given the way of the bullet.

This came as near as dammit to saying she was standing.

[lookout]

This came as near as dammit to saying she was standing.

No ! I said " would " and I was being facetious. WAS as a replacement to " would " is definite.

[Jane]

No ! I said " would " and I was being facetious. WAS as a replacement to " would " is definite.

The use of "would" WOULD have been correct had the second shot not occurred.

[maggie]

So according to you and Alias, a two shot suicide would be unbelievable but you believe it? 

I have a problem with Sheila's abilities after the first shot.
The fact is we don't know enough about the actual injuries to Sheila's vertebrae and whether she may have been able to function to some level or not at all, depending on the severity of the fractures to her upper spine.
I would guess whatever the spinal damage she would be confused and disoriented from the trauma to her body which would make it impossible to function outside of that confusion.  It's hard to know if the rifle was within her reach whether she would have another go at killing herself, a suicide who means it would strain every sinew to achieve their own death but I don't believe she would have been able to reason how to achieve the angle and position of the second shot. She would have struggled even with all her senses in tact and it is not likely that was the case.  This is one of the reasons which make me believe she didn't shoot herself.

[Jane]

I have a problem with Sheila's abilities after the first shot.
The fact is we don't know enough about the actual injuries to Sheila's vertebrae and whether she may have been able to function to some level or not at all, depending on the severity of the fractures to her upper spine.
I would guess whatever the spinal damage she would be confused and disoriented from the trauma to her body which would make it impossible to function outside of that confusion.  It's hard to know if the rifle was within her reach whether she would have another go at killing herself, a suicide who means it would strain every sinew to achieve their own death but I don't believe she would have been able to reason how to achieve the angle and position of the second shot. She would have struggled even with all her senses in tact and it is not likely that was the case.  This is one of the reasons which make me believe she didn't shoot herself.

I couldn't agree more, Maggie. None of Jeremy's supporters can come up with a reasoned explanation for how Sheila would have managed to shoot herself twice. Rather they're so insistent that she, not Jeremy, is responsible for the massacre, they're all but putting the gun in her hand, her finger on the trigger and forcing her to fire it. I think it's for this reason that they haven't stopped to wonder what, if any, movement was possible after the first shot, and what degree of lucidity she'd have had to manipulate the weapon a second time.

[lookout]

Except that Vanesiz had said that Sheila may have even walked around after the first shot ??

[Jane]

Except that Vanesiz had said that Sheila may have even walked around after the first shot ??

He admitted to CAL that he'd previously said that but he said he now believes she never moved after the first shot.

[lookout]

He admitted to CAL that he'd previously said that but he said he now believes she never moved after the first shot.

A convenient afterthought. However,it would tie-in with what I'd said about one shot swiftly followed by a second--------by her own hand.
I had doubted him from the beginning anyway.

[Jane]

A convenient afterthought. However,it would tie-in with what I'd said about one shot swiftly followed by a second--------by her own hand.
I had doubted him from the beginning anyway.

I don't doubt it, Lookout. You've managed to fit it conveniently into your belief that Jeremy's the only one who isn't lying.

[guest154]

I have to say I read it the same as you, even after I'd read it a second time.

And then we all debated it.

Spoke about why the theory wasn't possible. E.G
The actively bleeding wound.  ( I said this )
The damage to the spinal cord. ( You said this )
The pain and confusion after the first shot. (Maggie said this)
That Sheila would have had to fall backwards, didn't have  damage to the back of her head. (Caroline)

And then - the theory was never meant that way. 

Or am I just dreaming all that conversation?

[Jane]

And then we all debated it.

Spoke about why the theory wasn't possible. E.G
The actively bleeding wound.  ( I said this )
The damage to the spinal cord. ( You said this )
The pain and confusion after the first shot. (Maggie said this)
That Sheila would have had to fall backwards, didn't have  damage to the back of her head. (Caroline)

And then - the theory was never meant that way. 

Or am I just dreaming all that conversation?

No. I think that sums it up well, Mat.

[Caroline]

The second shot would have been more akin to her having been in a standing position given the way of the bullet.

.

[maggie]

Except that Vanesiz had said that Sheila may have even walked around after the first shot ??

True enough lookout and it does depend on the degree of her injury.  Imo, I don't believe she would have been able to do more than stagger, surely she would have been in a state of extreme shock? While she wouldn't have felt any pain I would guess her body would have reacted by shutting down all but vital organs and directing blood flow to the Heart, liver, kidneys etc.. Her blood pressure must have plummeted which means trying to stand up and walk would have caused her to lose consciousness.
   Also the blood flow doesn't indicate she was ever standing after she was wounded.