New Technology

[Jane]

It's worth noting that Vanezis says suicides with multiple shots, whilst unusual, do occur.

I don't follow the argument that somebody wouldn't have staged her suicide with two shots, clearly it wasn't the intention, but what else could the murderer have done when the first shot didn't work? It also seems a little coincidental that there were only two bullets remaining.

Maybe there was only one bullet left and the killer had to go and fetch another one, stashing the silencer in the gun cupboard whilst he was at it. 

PRE-CISELY Hartley. I -and others- have pointed out this fact to Alias on sooooo many occasions. We KNOW it wasn't ideal. We KNOW it wasn't what he'd have planned. We KNOW he hadn't allowed for the possibility, but it ended up being, no more or less, what it was and simply stating that he wouldn't have planned a two shot suicide doesn't alter what it had become.

It may also be worth noting that recently, although Vanezis originally said she could have moved after the first shot but would have needed to hold her head up, he now says, categorically, that she didn't move. I find it difficult to believe that with a broken neck and needing to hold her head in position, she could have lifted and manipulated the rifle into the position required for the second shot.

[lookout]

The second shot closely followed the first because it was a semi-automatic rifle which was comparatively new. Both shots/wounds had been pretty close to each other,allowing the force/movement of the first close shot to shift onto a second one.

[Jane]

The second shot closely followed the first because it was a semi-automatic rifle which was comparatively new. Both shots/wounds had been pretty close to each other,allowing the force/movement of the first close shot to shift onto a second one.

It has been said here, by gun experts, that the second shot required the same trigger finger action as did the first shot. It was a standard issue rifle not a machine gun.

[guest2181]

It has been said here, by gun experts, that the second shot required the same trigger finger action as did the first shot. It was a standard issue rifle not a machine gun.

Yes, a semi-automatic just means that the next round is automatically loaded without the need to manually eject the case.

Two shots would require two trigger pulls.

[lookout]

It has been said here, by gun experts, that the second shot required the same trigger finger action as did the first shot. It was a standard issue rifle not a machine gun.

Yes.And ? This is what I was trying to explain,but be my guest and twist it to your heart's content !

[Jane]

Yes.And ? This is what I was trying to explain,but be my guest and twist it to your heart's content !

It didn't need explaining, Lookout. If I, as a total gun virgin, was aware of it, so too, was everyone else.

[David1819]

It's worth noting that Vanezis says suicides with multiple shots, whilst unusual, do occur.

I don't follow the argument that somebody wouldn't have staged her suicide with two shots, clearly it wasn't the intention, but what else could the murderer have done when the first shot didn't work? It also seems a little coincidental that there were only two bullets remaining.

Maybe there was only one bullet left and the killer had to go and fetch another one, stashing the silencer in the gun cupboard whilst he was at it. 

I went looking for an autopsy photo of someone who hade shot themselves in the neck with a rifle twice in order to silence those who said it cannot be done. I actually found a poor sod who shot himself in the neck four times! with a .22 rifle!   

[Jane]

I went looking for an autopsy photo of someone who hade shot themselves in the neck with a rifle twice in order to silence those who said it cannot be done. I actually found a poor sod who shot himself in the neck four times! with a .22 rifle! 

And, before some leap on your band wagon, the variables attached to this case, to differentiate them from Sheila, are................................?

[lookout]

Aww,he really made sure,poor chap.

[David1819]

And, before some leap on your band wagon, the variables attached to this case, to differentiate them from Sheila, are................................?

It's a multiple shot suicide to the neck/chin with the same type of weapon. I was just trying prove that it can be done!

[Caroline]

I went looking for an autopsy photo of someone who hade shot themselves in the neck with a rifle twice in order to silence those who said it cannot be done. I actually found a poor sod who shot himself in the neck four times! with a .22 rifle! 

But it doesn't say that he shot himself with a .22 rifle David  . This is the description
"Suicidal gunshot wounds occasionally have more than one entrance wound. In this case, a suicide victim was witnessed by numerous people to place the small-caliber weapon under his chin and discharge the weapon. After each of the first three shots, he looked at the weapon, placed it back under his chin, and fired again, for a total of four shots. At autopsy, only one bullet was found to have entered the brain."

http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f10/firearms-gunshot-wound-deaths-part-ii-100691/

[Jan]

I went looking for an autopsy photo of someone who hade shot themselves in the neck with a rifle twice in order to silence those who said it cannot be done. I actually found a poor sod who shot himself in the neck four times! with a .22 rifle! 

wonder what order they were in because he was obviously conscious after three of the shots.

That's were forensics gets dangerous -  a lot of it is still based on the opinion of the person doing the investigation based on their own experience and research.

[Jan]

But it doesn't say that he shot himself with a .22 rifle David  . This is the description
"Suicidal gunshot wounds occasionally have more than one entrance wound. In this case, a suicide victim was witnessed by numerous people to place the small-caliber weapon under his chin and discharge the weapon. After each of the first three shots, he looked at the weapon, placed it back under his chin, and fired again, for a total of four shots. At autopsy, only one bullet was found to have entered the brain."

http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f10/firearms-gunshot-wound-deaths-part-ii-100691/

A  22 rifle is a small calibre weapon ? the bullets are small? that's why they could not get prints?

[Jane]

But it doesn't say that he shot himself with a .22 rifle David  . This is the description
"Suicidal gunshot wounds occasionally have more than one entrance wound. In this case, a suicide victim was witnessed by numerous people to place the small-caliber weapon under his chin and discharge the weapon. After each of the first three shots, he looked at the weapon, placed it back under his chin, and fired again, for a total of four shots. At autopsy, only one bullet was found to have entered the brain."

http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f10/firearms-gunshot-wound-deaths-part-ii-100691/

One of the variables I asked about, Caroline. A small calibre obviously being easier to manipulate than a  .22 rifle. Did he have a broken neck? He was clearly adept with a gun because he knew where to hit for greatest effect WITHOUT killing himself, before the final shot.

[Caroline]

A  22 rifle is a small calibre weapon ? the bullets are small? that's why they could not get prints?

I know it is, but the text doesn't mention anything about a 'rifle' - it could have been a handgun. There is a presumption that it was the same kind of weapon but that's not what it says - or don't you think clarity is important?