The rifle at the upstairs window Conundrum - The Bamber Alibi, revisted...

[Caroline]

It can only be a matter of weeks since you told everybody on the forum that not only did the police kill Sheila but they also killed Neville too.

Have you changed your mind on this now, or is your 'informant' now accepting that The police killed Sheila but denying they killed Neville as well?

Could things further change in the coming weeks or have u reached ur final
Scenario that the police killed Sheila but it was in fact Sheila who killed Neville, not the police?

This is a genuine question and not a criticism but I'm just interested to know whether there is one other single poster / person who believes what you claim? Is there anyone u are aware of? I think this is stretching things for even your most ardent supporter Lookout.

I share your 'scepticism' Petey 

[guest154]

It can only be a matter of weeks since you told everybody on the forum that not only did the police kill Sheila but they also killed Neville too.

Have you changed your mind on this now, or is your 'informant' now accepting that The police killed Sheila but denying they killed Neville as well?

Could things further change in the coming weeks or have u reached ur final
Scenario that the police killed Sheila but it was in fact Sheila who killed Neville, not the police?

This is a genuine question and not a criticism but I'm just interested to know whether there is one other single poster / person who believes what you claim? Is there anyone u are aware of? I think this is stretching things for even your most ardent supporter Lookout.

Petey, the truth is the truth and it shouldn't change. If it changes, it wasn't the truth, simple really.

[Jane]

Petey, the truth is the truth and it shouldn't change. If it changes, it wasn't the truth, simple really.

Trouble is, Mat, that when SO many different scenarios are offered, EACH claiming to be the "truth," how on earth is one supposed to decide WHICH truth is THE truth, or, is it as you say, because of the constant changes, NONE of it?

[lebaleb]

I share your 'scepticism' Petey 

I have to agree with you Caroline and Petey. Had the police been responsible for Sheila's death they would have let sleeping dogs lie i.e. 4 murders and 1 suicide.

[David1819]

Petey, the truth is the truth and it shouldn't change. If it changes, it wasn't the truth, simple really.

In Mikes current theory he uses the report of blood spatter expert Professor Herbert Leon McDonald as his reference point. Jeremy sent photos of Sheila and autopsy reports to Professor McDonald in 1992. Based on the blood spatter proff Herbert McDonald concluded that Shelia was murdered.

So if Jeremy is innocent and Shelia was murdered that then opens the possibility of police being Shelias killer.

The biggest problem with this theory is that in 1992 Jeremy did not have access to the police interviews and notes that contain evidence police say the photo varies from what they had seen and the location of the bible differs. Prof McDonald based his report on blood being under the bible assuming it was Shelias. So this new evidence that Jeremy obtained not long ago was not seen by McDonald making his reports now flawed.

It would be interesting if all the new material was sent back to macdonalds laboratory and what he would think now.

[guest2181]

In Mikes current theory he uses the report of blood spatter expert Professor Herbert Leon McDonald as his reference point. Jeremy sent photos of Sheila and autopsy reports to Professor McDonald in 1992. Based on the blood spatter proffers or McDonald concluded that Shelia was murdered.

So if Jeremy is innocent and Shelia was murdered that then opens the possibility of police being Shelias killer.

The biggest problem with this theory is that in 1992 Jeremy did not have access to the police interviews and notes that contain evidence police say the photo varies from what they had seen and the location of the bible differs. Prof McDonald based his report on blood being under the bible assuming it was Shelias. So this new evidence that Jeremy obtained not long ago was not seen by McDonald making his reports now flawed.

It would be interesting if all the new material was sent back to macdonalds laboratory and what he would think now.

Would it make the burgers taste better? 

[David1819]

Would it make the burgers taste better? 

Haha I just realised I got his name wrong. It's herbert leon macdonell

I don't think his forensic consultancy make burgers   

[guest2181]

Haha I just realised I got his name wrong. It's herbert leon macdonell

I don't think his forensic consultancy make burgers 

That's a relief. 

[maggie]

Haha I just realised I got his name wrong. It's herbert leon macdonell

I don't think his forensic consultancy make burgers   

Could be quite a lucrative sideline for them, David.

[mike tesko]

It can only be a matter of weeks since you told everybody on the forum that not only did the police kill Sheila but they also killed Neville too. that is another matter, which although potentially true, cannot be proven to the same extent by a reliance upon the same quality of evidence available surrounding the killing of Sheila Caffell, by the police. In her case, the fact of the matter is that the anshuzt rifle, 'has' been' photographed leaning against the bedroom window' as shown in crime scene photograph No.23, 'before' that same rifle was photographed in Sheila's possession, as per crime scene photographs, No.'s, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33. The documentary and photographic evidence which is currently available, proves and serves to establish beyond doubt that the police, and no-one else could have murdered her, and staged her death scene, and falsely claiming in the original instance, that she had shot herself, and later counter claiming that Jeremy had killed her. In the case of Ralph Bamber, no such clear cut evidence yet exists, despite the fact that his body was moved from its original position behind the internal door, sat on a chair, onto the kitchen floor in the region of the corner of the aga. However, Ralph had a bullet wound entry measuring the diameter of at least one of his 8 wounds as being 1\2 inch in diameter, when .22 ammunition only produces diameter bullet wound holes, measuring either 3/16ths, or 1\4 inch diameter wound holes depending upon which parts of the body where victims had been shot...

Have you changed your mind on this now, or is your 'informant' now accepting that The police killed Sheila but denying they killed Neville as well? The information I have is that police who took part in the informative (familiars, if you like, but to ordinary folk, best described as a training exercise under taken with the bodies of the victims still insitu), also shot bullets into the bodies of Ralph and June Bamber, shots which made larger diameter bullet wounds than other shots fired via the family and or relative owned .22 rifles. When shots were fired at such close quarters there would hardly be sufficient time, or distance travelled, to enable a .22 bullet to start yawing so that it would make bullet entry wounds twice as big as they normally would appear...

Could things further change in the coming weeks or have u reached ur final
Scenario that the police killed Sheila but it was in fact Sheila who killed Neville, not the police? the police 'did' shoot and kill Sheila. The police staged her death scene on the bedroom floor. Then PC Bird took the 'damning' photographs which show the rifle at the bedroom window earlier as per photo' No.23, upon her body afterwards, as per photo's, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33. Sheila Caffell had not killed herself, and her brother Jeremy did not shoot her - but the police did. Sheila fired bullets at all the other victims, but there is a strong case for believing that Ralph and June Bamber were shot with use of 'other' larger calibre bullets, which made larger bullet entry holes, with diameters of those wounds almost twice as big as those made by .22 type ammunition. That's what I am saying.There is no requirement for anyone such as me to have to prove that the police shot Ralph, or June Bamber with a different weapon than the one designated as 'the murder weapon', since it has already been confirmed that Sheila was shot and killed with two different guns. The evidence that the originall and badly fragmented PV/20, was 'switched' and a whole round put into its place speaks volumes about what police got up to. Add to that the fact that the rifle at the main bedroom window was photographed there at the window, before police photographed 'it' on Sheila's body, will serve as an example for eternity on how easily Essex police were trying to get away with shooting the three adult victims, and almost getting away with it..

This is a genuine question and not a criticism but I'm just interested to know whether there is one other single poster / person who believes what you claim? Is there anyone u are aware of? I think this is stretching things for even your most ardent supporter Lookout.

[petey]

So do you think / claim that the police killed Neville Bamber?

I appreciate that you are saying that the evidence 'isn't as strong' but u must know whether you believe / know / claim that the police did kill Neville?

[mike tesko]

As far as the state and the condition of the original bullet (PV/20) is concerned, there is 'clearly' a huge discrepancy, between what the pathologist Peter Venezis describes it in terms of it being, ' badly fragmented', and the ballistic experts own description where he describes it as, 'whole' in appearance...

Such a discrepancy should never have arisen, and everyone of 'us' knows, that a 'badly fragmented bullet, cannot grow back into its former, 'whole' condition...

Police swapped 'it' so that the ballistic expert, Fletcher could associate its replacement with and to he anshuzt rifle, so that police could investigate the murders as a one gun crime, when it wasn't...

[Jane]

I have to agree with you Caroline and Petey. Had the police been responsible for Sheila's death they would have let sleeping dogs lie i.e. 4 murders and 1 suicide.

The problem is, that if one is going to remain steadfast in the assertion that Jeremy is innocent, but at the same time it looks less and less likely that Sheila is guilty, the finger that points must be provided with another place to rest to ensure it doesn't turn back to Jeremy.

[David1819]

As far as the state and the condition of the original bullet (PV/20) is concerned, there is 'clearly' a huge discrepancy, between what the pathologist Peter Venezis describes it in terms of it being, ' badly fragmented', and the ballistic experts own description where he describes it as, 'whole' in appearance...

Such a discrepancy should never have arisen, and everyone of 'us' knows, that a 'badly fragmented bullet, cannot grow back into its former, 'whole' condition...

Police swapped 'it' so that the ballistic expert, Fletcher could associate its replacement with and to he anshuzt rifle, so that police could investigate the murders as a one gun crime, when it wasn't...

1) Professor Mcdonells report is now flawed as we now know police messed up the scene and the location of the bible before they took the photos. That is what Mcdonell made his decision on.

2) Sheila's wounds to the neck were contact or partial contact wounds.

Theory of Police Killing Shelia is Flawed

[mike tesko]

Everything points to the fact that the police shot Sheila, and killed her, then they (the police) staged her death scene on the bedroom floor, and then got PC Bird (SOCO) to photograph her body there after the rifle which eventually fired the fatal shot (PV/19) that killed her was brought from the main bedroom window, and positioned on her body. This sequence of events is adequately covered by the content and the detail in the police radio message logs, timed entries, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, 7.45am, and 8.10am, and photographs, numbered, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33