The rifle at the upstairs window Conundrum - The Bamber Alibi, revisted...

[lemonhead]

thank you justice.now does that also means the photo mike and david keep mentioning the rifle is in the master bedroom.ie.nevill and junes room.if yes than its like i said that photo proves nothing.

The photo is taken from the stairs so has to be the bedroom June and Nevill used. The boxroom is not near any stairs.

[sami]

I believe it was found on the wall near the top of the main stairs - 'O' type blood...

who had o type blood group mike

[lemonhead]

I am satisfied at 'this' stage, that WPC Julia Jeapes, saw the rifle when it first appeared at one of the first floor windows, at 7.15am, that 'it' was the ' box room window', to which she was referring to. I argued until I was blue in the face that she had seen the rifle resting against the inside of the main bedroom window, but the truth is she saw it inside the box room window...

The real truth which many appear unable to grasp, is 'how' and under what circumstance, did 'that' rifle from its 'starting position' at the box room window, find its way onto Sheila's body, after 10.13am, when just prior to police photographing 'it' on her body as per crime scene photographs, numbered, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33, 'the rifle' was 'photographed' leaning at the inside of the main bedroom window, as per crime scene photograph, No. 23...

We therefore know, with absolute certainty, that 'the' anshuzt rifle, had been 'resting' against the box room window at 7.15am, that at around 10.13am it had found its way to 'its' place against the main bedroom window, as per photo' No. 23, before eventually ending up on top of Sheila's body a short time later, to enable PC Bird to take photographs, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33, now showing 'that very same rifle', upon Sheila's body, designed to show how she 'had' taken her own life...

Clearly, without doubt, the rifle which is being said to have fired 'both of the bullets' that injured and killed Sheila Caffell, had journeyed from the box room window, at around 7.15am, to main bedroom window, at 10.13am, and then onto Sheila's body, afterwards...

How do we know WPS Jeapes saw the rifle used to kill everyone in the boxroom window?  She said she saw what appeared to be the barrel of a rifle. That doesn't prove what she saw actually was the barrel of a rifle let alone the barrel of the rifle used in the killings.  If she was certain she saw the rifle used in the killings then instead of saying it appeared to be a rifle barrel she would have definitively stated she saw the barrel of the rifle used in the killings sitting against the window.  Do you have a crime scene photo of the boxroom so we can see if there was anything near the window?

 

[sami]

How do we know WPS Jeapes saw the rifle used to kill everyone in the boxroom window?  She said she saw what appeared to be the barrel of a rifle. That doesn't prove what she saw actually was the barrel of a rifle let alone the barrel of the rifle used in the killings.  If she was certain she saw the rifle used in the killings then instead of saying it appeared to be a rifle barrel she would have definitively stated she saw the barrel of the rifle used in the killings sitting against the window.  Do you have a crime scene photo of the boxroom so we can see if there was anything near the window?

another good point lemonhead.she also would have alerted the raid team .not a single member of the firearms team mentions wpc jeapes seeing a rifle.it would have been vital infomation for them as they would then have approached that room with extra care.all she could see would be about 6ins of what looked like a round tube .from that distance it might well look like a broom handle

[Jane]

another good point lemonhead.she also would have alerted the raid team .not a single member of the firearms team mentions wpc jeapes seeing a rifle.it would have been vital infomation for them as they would then have approached that room with extra care.all she could see would be about 6ins of what looked like a round tube .from that distance it might well look like a broom handle

It sounds as if we all may be thinking that what Jeapes uttered was a throw away line which she didn't consider important enough to expand on and share.

[guest7363]

another good point lemonhead.she also would have alerted the raid team .not a single member of the firearms team mentions wpc jeapes seeing a rifle.it would have been vital infomation for them as they would then have approached that room with extra care.all she could see would be about 6ins of what looked like a round tube .from that distance it might well look like a broom handle

Not only that Sami a trained officer would have kept an eye on any rifle in a window?

[sami]

Not only that Sami a trained officer would have kept an eye on any rifle in a window?

yes true again justice.the raid team would want to know straight away from the watcher if it moved while they forced entry.

[lookout]

another good point lemonhead.she also would have alerted the raid team .not a single member of the firearms team mentions wpc jeapes seeing a rifle.it would have been vital infomation for them as they would then have approached that room with extra care.all she could see would be about 6ins of what looked like a round tube .from that distance it might well look like a broom handle

The lot of them should have gone to Spec-Savers with what was missed or " they didn't see " !

[mike tesko]

  I thought this had been cleared up and all been through several times David, she is looking at the kitchen side and the door that the police made an entry through, the bedroom she is looking at is the box room.

There was clearly a great deal of confusion about which 'colour sides' of the farmhouse  WPC Julia Jeapes 'believed' was 'white'  and 'red' sides, when she was talking about the front door of the farmhouse, and the kitchen window of the farmhouse? One unifying feature being when she spoke about being 'at the corner of white red', it mattered not which side was 'white', and which side was 'red', or 'vice versa', at 'that' stage...

[David1819]

In the location where the rifle is in the photo it can't be seen by someone outside on the ground.  It is to the side not directly in front of the window.

Go to WHF put a rifle in the same position then look outside from the ground while at night and if it cannot be seen I shall except it cannot be seen.

To make matters worse though you keep raising an alleged sighting that took place in the boxroom window.  The window clad in grey above the kitchen is the boxroom not the bedroom.  WPS Jeapes was looking at the boxroom window.

No WPS Jeapes was not looking in the box room.

I saw that the front door of the farm was shut and that a light was on in the room to the right of this which I understood was the kitchen. Jeapes is at the front door seeing it shut, then is under the impression the room to right is the kitchen. The room the right of the front door is not the kitchen. hence the term "which I understood was the kitchen"



"I could also see a window one the first floor of white/red side were the building is clad in grey brick in which was what appeared to be a rifle leaning against the window" This sentence begins after a full stop no conjunction or connectives therefore this sentence alone is not part of a clause  together with what is said before it in a linier sense as you interpret it.

Then we have the photo illustrating exactly what was described by WPC Jeapes.

[mike tesko]

Not only that Sami a trained officer would have kept an eye on any rifle in a window?

Yes, they did, until after the firearms officers entered the farmhouse safely - rifle was still resting against the box room window...

[lemonhead]

It sounds as if we all may be thinking that what Jeapes uttered was a throw away line which she didn't consider important enough to expand on and share.

Before writing her statement she was shown the photo of the rifle. I'm thinking she didn't realize it was the rifle the raid team said was on Sheila's body, assumed it was some other rifle that had always been in that location, incorrectly thought it was the window she had been looking at and this all conflated to cause her to have a false recollection of seeing what appeared to be a rifle barrel. 

[lookout]

Anything would have been seen with the light blazing. The place was lit up.

[sami]

Yes, they did, until after the firearms officers entered the farmhouse safely - rifle was still resting against the box room window...

is there a crime scene photo of it in the boxroom.also mike who in the family had type o blood

[mike tesko]

I saw that the front door of the farm was shut and that a light was on in the room to the right of this which I understood was the kitchen. Jeapes is at the front door seeing it, then is under the impression the room to right is the kitchen. The room the right of the front door is not the kitchen. hence the term "which I understood was the kitchen"
I agree with the logic, but it is actually more in Jeremy's favour, if the barrel of the rifle to which WPC Jeapes refers, was resting against ' the box room window', rather than resting against the 'main bedroom window', as per photo' 23. This is because there is an extra explanation required for how the rifle in question moved the 'extra distance' from 'a different bedroom' into the main bedroom...