Another MASSIVE Lie

[lookout]

Julie was an intelligent girl. There was no way on God's earth that she'd have admitted -a month on- that she'd seen injuries on Jeremy after the massacre. She wouldn't have made obvious her prior knowledge of what had occurred.

Circumstantial evidence was still flowing after a month so why should what JM had to say make any difference ? Don't forget a " case was being put together " so there'd be no stone left unturned whatever it could have been.

[Jane]

Circumstantial evidence was still flowing after a month so why should what JM had to say make any difference ? Don't forget a " case was being put together " so there'd be no stone left unturned whatever it could have been.

But you're viewing it from 30 years on, NOT from the viewpoint of a 21 year old who may have been concerned with staying OUT of a hole before she was in it and needed to dig herself out.

[lookout]

But you're viewing it from 30 years on, NOT from the viewpoint of a 21 year old who may have been concerned with staying OUT of a hole before she was in it and needed to dig herself out.

 Aren't we all viewing it from 30 years on ? She'd already dug herself a hole. What would have been more important-------reporting a " potential murderer " or being scared about how YOU would fare given your own background of crime ?
 It was a question of self-preservation along with some help regarding the law and the fact that S Jones NEEDED her as a prosecution witness,and if her friend hadn't been the first to tell the police,JM wouldn't have bothered at all because she knew in her own heart and mind that he wasn't the killer.
So having been a "vulnerable" 21 year old it works both ways.

[Jane]

 Aren't we all viewing it from 30 years on ? She'd already dug herself a hole. What would have been more important-------reporting a " potential murderer " or being scared about how YOU would fare given your own background of crime ?
 It was a question of self-preservation along with some help regarding the law and the fact that S Jones NEEDED her as a prosecution witness,and if her friend hadn't been the first to tell the police,JM wouldn't have bothered at all because she knew in her own heart and mind that he wasn't the killer.
So having been a "vulnerable" 21 year old it works both ways.

Sounds like killing two birds with one stone, to me.

[lookout]

Sounds like killing two birds with one stone, to me.

JM must have suffered a certain amount of confusion at the time. Her being pressed to give evidence which was then twisted beyond all recognition by the law enforcers because this is what they do purposely to get you confused. Then the influence ( she was only 21 don't forget ! ) and to be influenced by a team of police she'd have thought they must be right in what they say,they're the law.
 After 32 interviews she'd have come more accustomed to the ways of the law,but she was also in the situation of abiding by whatever they said and had felt OBLIGED to given the reward at the end of it all because as I've said before that only for USING JM,EP had nothing else to go on. EP did use her there's no doubt about that.

To make the situation feel more authentic they,EP,even offered JM a " safe-house " which is only done in exceptionally dangerous circumstances when a person's life is at risk. It all added to their carefully thought of plan !   

[Caroline]

I would like to add that of those posters who think he is innocent not all believe the call from Neville to the police happened or that Jeremy was framed.

If Jeremy is innocent he does not know if the call happened  or not.

I think at the point of the investigation being changed the police believed it was murder suicide - but they did not have proof either way so had not choice but to go with the flow on the pressure being put on them.

One other thing in CAL book Julie is quoted as saying she still thought Jeremey was guilty but that forensic evidence might prove otherwise.

Why on earth would she say that? She of all people must KNOW he is guilty.

Same as Bews - he thinks he is guilty?

A lot of people who should know the truth seem to be covering their backs.

Because perhaps she knows the silencer is dodgy evidence.

[guest1199]

He did have a choice, that's true lebaleb but a shotgun is so loud it probably  would have alerted the Foakes' in the farm cottages and even further afield. Someone needing to do the job quietly and needing to avoid discovery and make their escape would not choose the easy option of the shotgun.
Imo it was necessary the rifle was chosen for the particular reason that it was quiet therefore not only was it less likely to disturb his victims but also it would not be heard outside the house. 
Think weighing up the options the killer thought this reason outweighed the shotgun option even though it had it's own risks ie. It was harder to kill people if they were disturbed.

That seems to be offering one bad choice for another.  Why would there be any urgency? The guns at the farm weren't the only options available to Jeremy.  He may have been able to procure a more adequate gun through farm connections or through a magazine on a false name etc.  He still had to predict the unpredictable with the staged suicide of Sheila who was capable of anything on that night or face an certain life sentence. Only an idiot would take the risk and JB was no idiot, that's why he didn't do it IMO.

Hoots

Hoots!

[Jane]

JM must have suffered a certain amount of confusion at the time. Her being pressed to give evidence which was then twisted beyond all recognition by the law enforcers because this is what they do purposely to get you confused. Then the influence ( she was only 21 don't forget ! ) and to be influenced by a team of police she'd have thought they must be right in what they say,they're the law.
 After 32 interviews she'd have come more accustomed to the ways of the law,but she was also in the situation of abiding by whatever they said and had felt OBLIGED to given the reward at the end of it all because as I've said before that only for USING JM,EP had nothing else to go on. EP did use her there's no doubt about that.

To make the situation feel more authentic they,EP,even offered JM a " safe-house " which is only done in exceptionally dangerous circumstances when a person's life is at risk. It all added to their carefully thought of plan !   

I imagine she must have suffered rather more than "a certain amount of confusion." She was the holder of this terrible secret but there seemed little she could contribute which was first hand. Most of what she knew had been told her by Jeremy -if he was having a laugh at her expense it certainly backfired on him- and he'd told her she wouldn't be believed. I imagine that once the relief of sharing what she knew was over, there came the problem of her friends telling her she should go to the police.

I think the notion of a "safe house" is something which has become embellished.

[lookout]

JM must have suffered a certain amount of confusion at the time. Her being pressed to give evidence which was then twisted beyond all recognition by the law enforcers because this is what they do purposely to get you confused. Then the influence ( she was only 21 don't forget ! ) and to be influenced by a team of police she'd have thought they must be right in what they say,they're the law.
 After 32 interviews she'd have come more accustomed to the ways of the law,but she was also in the situation of abiding by whatever they said and had felt OBLIGED to given the reward at the end of it all because as I've said before that only for USING JM,EP had nothing else to go on. EP did use her there's no doubt about that.

To make the situation feel more authentic they,EP,even offered JM a " safe-house " which is only done in exceptionally dangerous circumstances when a person's life is at risk. It all added to their carefully thought of plan !   

The moral being that it was EP who'd had a plan-------------not Jeremy !

[Caroline]

Hi Caroline

OK. So the last thing I said was that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, you also mentioned that “The best laid plans don't always work the way they were planned and perhaps circumstances intervened”.  If Jeremy or anyone else decides that they are going to massacre their family then planning is going to come into the equation.

The first thing that worries me is the calibre of the gun or at least it’s efficiency as a killing weapon.  As far as I know Neville was hit 8 times, June was hit 7, Daniel5 times and Nicholas 3 times (Wikipedia source).  There were over 30 cartridges spent as I understand it.  The gun was of low calibre and completely inefficient for the task.  It may be effective in killing rats, bunnies and foxes but Jeremy must have known the gun was not the weapon of choice. IMO Jeremy would not take that risk or make that mistake. 

If Jeremy was to kill his family he would have certainly have acquired a heavier calibre gun to dispatch the family when they are all in the same room perhaps when having lunch or having a family get-together such as a birthday or anniversary, that way there is a lot less risk.  For Jeremy’s plan to work either way it would have to include one absolutely crucial outcome which was to make it appear that the murder of Sheila would look like suicide.  It would have been out of the question to stage the suicide with Neville or June since they would have no motive to murder or suicide.  So Jeremy would have had to predict the unpredictable and rely on his paranoid schizophrenic sister who was capable of anything on a night that absolutely anything could have happened to be absolutely compliant and to act exactly according to his plan of action.

So while Jeremy was walking towards the farmhouse that night he would have known that the only way that he was not going to be convicted for murder would be for the above staged suicide scenario to be an absolute certainty, if not there would be no way he would avoid arrest and subsequent charges.  He might have considered the possibility that his climbing through the window would set the dog barking and he might have to confront Neville perhaps with a shotgun trying to find out what the problem was. Jeremy would then have to take care of him and the rest of the family with his bunny-popper gun providing he got to it first.  If he did manage to get to the gun first there would have been a complete uproar with Neville would have been crashing about trying to defend himself while he took the 8 low-calibre bullets that killed him.  With all the time that would take it could have resulted in the twins as well as Sheila and June in hearing the uproar trying to escape down any one of the farmhouses 3 staircases trying to get out or find places to hide resulting in a fiasco.  Unfortunately JB was apparently too stupid even to contemplate that on his way to the farmhouse on that ruinous night.  He was to busy thinking the unthinkable, predicting the unpredictable and planning the unplannable in order to get the exact result needed, the staged suicide of Sheila.

Nah! Life doesn’t work like that.  The case against JB is a stitch-up.

Hoots

Hi Tom,

Couple of things for you to consider - the upstairs door that led to the other stairs was locked so there was only one exit stairs from the bedroom side of the house and Jeremy did enquire about a higher calibre rifle. He asked Peter Eaton about buying a high powered automatic (of some description) with the excuse that he wanted to take up hunting. He was told that such a weapon wasn't sportsman like.  -I agree that he was stitched up but by his own arrogance.

You still didn't answer why EP would frame Jeremy Bamber when they had a perfectly straight forward conclusion with Sheila as the killer. Nor when they decided to frame him?

[lookout]

I imagine she must have suffered rather more than "a certain amount of confusion." She was the holder of this terrible secret but there seemed little she could contribute which was first hand. Most of what she knew had been told her by Jeremy -if he was having a laugh at her expense it certainly backfired on him- and he'd told her she wouldn't be believed. I imagine that once the relief of sharing what she knew was over, there came the problem of her friends telling her she should go to the police.

I think the notion of a "safe house" is something which has become embellished.

Her secret was knowing that Jeremy didn't do it but she was in too deep to retract any of her phony statements,of which there are 30 which we haven't seen.
Write to Bambergate and find out whether her testimony was dodgy or not.

[Jane]

Her secret was knowing that Jeremy didn't do it but she was in too deep to retract any of her phony statements,of which there are 30 which we haven't seen.
Write to Bambergate and find out whether her testimony was dodgy or not.

The majority don't share your opinion, Lookout and I guess "dodgy" will only be apparent to those who think Jeremy is innocent.

[lookout]

The majority don't share your opinion, Lookout and I guess "dodgy" will only be apparent to those who think Jeremy is innocent.

Bambergate is in the " know ".

[Jane]

Bambergate is in the " know ".

Dependent, I think, on "which side one bats for"?

[lookout]

Dependent, I think, on "which side one bats for"?

He's done a lot of " personal " research before committing himslf,so it wasn't always a case of which side.