Another MASSIVE Lie

[lookout]

If she'd been close enough to Nevill for him to grapple with the gun, the barrel would have been too long to shoot her in the neck. Even if he had managed it, how, with that sort of injury, did she manage to shoot him and beat him to death.

Not if Sheila had had hold of the barrel and Neville the butt,because that first shot wasn't a contact one.
I'd have imagined at that stage that poor Neville was literally on his last and possibly unaware of the carnage upstairs.
Don't forget that all occupants suffered extra shots when they were already dead,hence all the bullets which had been used. Neville would have died shortly after the struggle.

[lebaleb]

I hope you don't mind me answering this.

Jeremy had no choice of weapon. He had to use what his father bought him and why would Nevill think he wanted a gun for anything other than shooting game?

It's one thing to say he could have planned it for a family gathering. Getting them all together for such an occasion is something else, especially in a fractured family. Besides which, he wanted it to appear as if Sheila had done it.

It's easy to sit on the sidelines with the benefit of hindsight and say what he should have planned for, but I'll guarantee that Jeremy BELIEVED he'd planned for every possibility and one of them WOULDN'T have been having to shoot Sheila twice.

Jeremy did have a choice of weapon. It could have easily been a shotgun.

[Jane]

Jeremy did have a choice of weapon. It could have easily been a shotgun.

But it wasn't a shotgun he was seen trying to teach Sheila how to use.

[Jane]

Not if Sheila had had hold of the barrel and Neville the butt,because that first shot wasn't a contact one.
I'd have imagined at that stage that poor Neville was literally on his last and possibly unaware of the carnage upstairs.
Don't forget that all occupants suffered extra shots when they were already dead,hence all the bullets which had been used. Neville would have died shortly after the struggle.

He would NEVER have made any form of defensive action with those appalling head wound and they weren't done post mortem.

[lookout]

He would NEVER have made any form of defensive action with those appalling head wound and they weren't done post mortem.

Neither would Jeremy have left there unscathed if he'd been the killer. Man to man as opposed to father and daughter and this was why Sheila showed no signs of a struggle,apart from perhaps her mother who'd grabbed Sheila's arm which left their mark.

[maggie]

Jeremy did have a choice of weapon. It could have easily been a shotgun.

He did have a choice, that's true lebaleb but a shotgun is so loud it probably  would have alerted the Foakes' in the farm cottages and even further afield. Someone needing to do the job quietly and needing to avoid discovery and make their escape would not choose the easy option of the shotgun.
Imo it was necessary the rifle was chosen for the particular reason that it was quiet therefore not only was it less likely to disturb his victims but also it would not be heard outside the house. 
Think weighing up the options the killer thought this reason outweighed the shotgun option even though it had it's own risks ie. It was harder to kill people if they were disturbed.

[Jane]

Neither would Jeremy have left there unscathed if he'd been the killer. Man to man as opposed to father and daughter and this was why Sheila showed no signs of a struggle,apart from perhaps her mother who'd grabbed Sheila's arm which left their mark.

There is no proof he wasn't. No one checked.

[lookout]

There is no proof he wasn't. No one checked.

 JM would have seen bruises,etc on his body as she was the only one who saw him undressed. Don't worry,AP had reported seeing " burn marks " on one of Jeremy's hands to which were then inspected by EP even at the suggestion of an infra-red instrument but in the end,the so-called marks amounted to nothing because they weren't there.
Shows how desperate everyone was !  Pity the pathologists weren't as thorough.

[maggie]

There is no proof he wasn't. No one checked.

It's often argued and I have said it myself that Julie Mugford didn't mention seeing any injuries on JB but I am looking at it from a different angle now and I wonder.......
She had enough information as a witness without incriminating herself by stating she saw such injuries when she slept with him after the murders eventhough she claimed she 'suspected' him of carrying it out.
It makes me feel ill thinking about the fact she did this and I'm sure the jury would have felt similar as her behaviour was outrageous imo. It certainly wouldn't have sounded good or made a good impression of her integrity on the witness stand.
I have serious doubts about JMs involvement in all this, I'm afraid, although I'm not making any accusations, just wonder.

[lookout]

So far as I'm concerned there'd been no plan at all,least of all on Jeremy's part as Neville would well and truly have been killed first. As for pitting strength against father and son,the father would have won.
What I've gathered from this tragedy is that it was a very frenzied attack carried out " at the moment ".

[susan]

It's often argued and I have said it myself that Julie Mugford didn't mention seeing any injuries on JB but I am looking at it from a different angle now and I wonder.......
She had enough information as a witness without incriminating herself by stating she saw such injuries when she slept with him after the murders eventhough she claimed she 'suspected' him of carrying it out.
It makes me feel ill thinking about the fact she did this and I'm sure the jury would have felt similar as her behaviour was outrageous imo. It certainly wouldn't have sounded good or made a good impression of her integrity on the witness stand.
I have serious doubts about JMs involvement in all this, I'm afraid, although I'm not making any accusations, just wonder.

Maggie that is a good point and I do believe she was involved and grassed him up to save herself and this is why he has said little or nothing about her he would incriminate himself.

[susan]

He did have a choice, that's true lebaleb but a shotgun is so loud it probably  would have alerted the Foakes' in the farm cottages and even further afield. Someone needing to do the job quietly and needing to avoid discovery and make their escape would not choose the easy option of the shotgun.
Imo it was necessary the rifle was chosen for the particular reason that it was quiet therefore not only was it less likely to disturb his victims but also it would not be heard outside the house. 
Think weighing up the options the killer thought this reason outweighed the shotgun option even though it had it's own risks ie. It was harder to kill people if they were disturbed.

Maggie I guess in order to make it look like Sheila had carried out the killings a rifle would look more convincing than the shot gun especially with the overkill.

[Jane]

 JM would have seen bruises,etc on his body as she was the only one who saw him undressed. Don't worry,AP had reported seeing " burn marks " on one of Jeremy's hands to which were then inspected by EP even at the suggestion of an infra-red instrument but in the end,the so-called marks amounted to nothing because they weren't there.
Shows how desperate everyone was !  Pity the pathologists weren't as thorough.

Julie was an intelligent girl. There was no way on God's earth that she'd have admitted -a month on- that she'd seen injuries on Jeremy after the massacre. She wouldn't have made obvious her prior knowledge of what had occurred.

[Jane]

He did have a choice, that's true lebaleb but a shotgun is so loud it probably  would have alerted the Foakes' in the farm cottages and even further afield. Someone needing to do the job quietly and needing to avoid discovery and make their escape would not choose the easy option of the shotgun.
Imo it was necessary the rifle was chosen for the particular reason that it was quiet therefore not only was it less likely to disturb his victims but also it would not be heard outside the house. 
Think weighing up the options the killer thought this reason outweighed the shotgun option even though it had it's own risks ie. It was harder to kill people if they were disturbed.

And how many of us believe Sheila capable of weighing up those options?

[Jane]

It's often argued and I have said it myself that Julie Mugford didn't mention seeing any injuries on JB but I am looking at it from a different angle now and I wonder.......
She had enough information as a witness without incriminating herself by stating she saw such injuries when she slept with him after the murders eventhough she claimed she 'suspected' him of carrying it out.
It makes me feel ill thinking about the fact she did this and I'm sure the jury would have felt similar as her behaviour was outrageous imo. It certainly wouldn't have sounded good or made a good impression of her integrity on the witness stand.
I have serious doubts about JMs involvement in all this, I'm afraid, although I'm not making any accusations, just wonder.

So there is a distinct possibility that Julie saw injuries on Jeremy, but at the time there was still the "carrot" on the horizon, of her becoming the next Mrs Bamber, so she said nothing -although she COULD have said something there and then, saving both police time and tax-payer money. One month on, it would have looked fishy if she said anything. "I forgot to mention it" simply wouldn't have cut the mustard.