Author Topic: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?  (Read 246194 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1410 on: May 14, 2017, 03:46:PM »
Steve, thank-you SO much for these excerpts. I read Colin's book back in the early 90's. Reading it now reminds me how moved by it, I was. Looking back, it was around that time, in need of direction, I had a natal chart done, the accuracy of which, was astounding. I can understand how Colin would have been blown away by what he was told. I'm aware that, according to what one is searching for and one's difficulty in finding it, such things can become addictive. I've not felt the need to search in such places since. That's not to say my life is perfect. I've perfected my copying mechanisms!!!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1411 on: May 14, 2017, 03:47:PM »
Betty then went on to talk about Bambs, when she suddenly stopped and said, "Who's Nicholas? Someone's just called out, "You'll know that I'm Nicholas!" So I wondered who Nicholas was."

"Well there's quite a few Nicholas's I know."

"No, no, this is the child's voice and I didn't know if it's another child involved or anything like that."

In that moment I knew, without a doubt, it was the boys. Daniel had never felt a need to make the distinction. Betty continued:

"Um...but your own life...Your ex-wife...you will not get into communication with her for a long, long, time and someone is saying to me, "Please tell him not to try!"

Offline Jane

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1412 on: May 14, 2017, 03:49:PM »
"This kiddy really shouted to me, "Come on, Dad, come on, Dad! Come on, Dad, we're all right!"

"He always put on a baby voice, the other one was wiser."

"Yes, but all I can say is although it's tragic, they're very happy. It's almost as though they made the transition so quickly that they didn't have time to think about anything. It wasn't tragic because I think they didn't know. Do you know anything about that? It's almost as though they could have been asleep and so they made the transition while they were asleep. That's what I get-so that nothing was known about it."


It's very strange that this woman describes them in the way she does. I've always seen them as ethereal wisps.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1413 on: May 14, 2017, 03:51:PM »
Steve, thank-you SO much for these excerpts. I read Colin's book back in the early 90's. Reading it now reminds me how moved by it, I was. Looking back, it was around that time, in need of direction, I had a natal chart done, the accuracy of which, was astounding. I can understand how Colin would have been blown away by what he was told. I'm aware that, according to what one is searching for and one's difficulty in finding it, such things can become addictive. I've not felt the need to search in such places since. That's not to say my life is perfect. I've perfected my copying mechanisms!!!
Hi Jane there's a bit about the crock of gold, the Rainbow's End, which I might not get to today, but which does encapsulate Colin's journey. I feel that if Colin can cope with the momentous events which engulfed him then it's humbling for the rest of us somehow to make the best of what we have and try and learn from his experiences.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1414 on: May 14, 2017, 03:53:PM »
It's very strange that this woman describes them in the way she does. I've always seen them as ethereal wisps.
They were mature beyond their years, possessing the best qualities of their parents respectively: thoughtful, humane. I don't think Jeremy could cope with it..
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 03:54:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Jane

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1415 on: May 14, 2017, 03:56:PM »
Hi Jane there's a bit about the crock of gold, the Rainbow's End, which I might not get to today, but which does encapsulate Colin's journey. I feel that if Colin can cope with the momentous events which engulfed him then it's humbling for the rest of us somehow to make the best of what we have and try and learn from his experiences.

Colin endured the very worst that can happen to any of us. On a purely, and totally beyond our control, esoteric level, I've often felt that the boys were never destined for a long life. However, they certainly should not have had to leave this world in the way they did.

Offline Jane

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1416 on: May 14, 2017, 03:58:PM »
They were mature beyond their years, possessing the best qualities of their parents respectively: thoughtful, humane. I don't think Jeremy could cope with it..

I think you've got it, Steve. Those boys were beyond childhood. Thinking about it, they needed to be, didn't they? They were sent into the care of adults who were yet children.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1417 on: May 14, 2017, 04:04:PM »
"I don't want to really try..."

"No?"

"I just wanted to know...I was wondering about what you were saying, that the twins made the transition very easily. Did she?" I was desperate to find out if Bambs had known anything about it or whether, as I now suspected, she had also been asleep.

"Um...I feel that she still doesn't know what's happening to her. I just feel that she wouldn't be suffering because I feel the mind is energy and it's the mind and what we achieve that goes with us. With her, her mind was already disturbed and so therefore the shock of leaving her physical body... It's another shock on top of her already disturbed mind, so, therefore, she would be in a state of peace for quite a long time. I feel that she is being looked after and she needs a long period of rest and I believe that is what she's having. The information I'm getting through is that she is at peace and when she does eventually come out of this peaceful rest, everything will be so beautiful that she will automatically accept it, that this has happened."

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1418 on: May 21, 2017, 05:42:PM »
"There is another man coming through, a rather forceful man,um..and he, I am afraid, is still angry but that is something he will have to deal with. He's talking about his son, who, um...(long pause). He's saying to me about you as well, that.."We were mistaken about you. We see things in a different light and we were wrong." Now I don't know what that means. It's about your relationship with your wife and he's just saying to you, he's a very positive man and there is no way he would say he was wrong if he hadn't found out he was wrong, through all sorts of ways, and he's just saying to you, "We were wrong." Who's David? "David" he's saying, "David knows all the answers." Now I don't know who David is."

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1419 on: May 21, 2017, 05:49:PM »
"That would be his nephew. David is the one person I haven't really talked to and I feel that he has an awful lot to say but he's got to keep it to himself."

"Well, what he is saying to you is, David knows all the answers and at some time or another David is going to have to tell you."

"Yes."

"For his own progression, he has held back."

By this time both Betty and I were holding back the tears but she had also finally said enough to convince me that what she was telling me was authentic; the part about David having swung it conclusively. At this point in time I had been told that Bambs's cousin, David Boutflour, was going to be one of the most important witnesses at the trial, but that was all I knew. None of his evidence, including the fact that he had found the bloodstained silencer at the back of Nevill's gun cupboard was public knowledge. I certainly didn't know it.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1420 on: May 21, 2017, 06:04:PM »
Barbara had worked for many years and, as his secretary, knew more about the troubles within the family than anyone. She described their relationship as being more like father and daughter than a formal working one. She was one of the few people Nevill shared all his problems with. Fearful of Jeremy's release, and because of police instructions, Barbara had kept her entire story to herself before the trial-and even then, much of it was too prejudicial to be heard. It was only after June and Nevill's ashes had been buried, some months later, that she finally have her full story to the family. Like me, she had nothing to gain from her testimony but to see justice done.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1421 on: May 21, 2017, 06:11:PM »
When I saw Barbara, rather than asking direct questions, I told her all about my session with Betty. But when I came to the part about Nevill's anger, she immediately said, "That's because he knew he was going to die!" She then told me how Nevill had suspected for some months that Jeremy was planning to kill him-but thought he would be the only victim. He was convinced his death would come as the result of a shooting accident during the hunting season and never envisaged the entire family being at risk. For this reason he thought he had plenty of time and was in the process of tidying up all the loose ends regarding the farm and his financial affairs, just in case. He was also, apparently, preparing some sort of dossier on Jeremy and had told Barbara that he would soon have to do something very unpleasant that he wasn't looking forward to. He had been referring to handing over the dossier to the authorities. Nevill was angry with himself because his thoroughness and reluctance to turn in his son had led to the deaths of his entire family.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 06:11:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1422 on: May 28, 2017, 05:07:PM »
The death sentence will never be a deterrent to a disturbed or desperate mind. If a person is pathologically dangerous-as I suspect Jeremy is-then the life sentence should mean life and nothing less.

Now that may offend some of my new friends in prisons, but a sentence has to be what it says it is, otherwise it has no meaning. What might have greater meaning, however-and thereby give meaning and purpose to the whole experience of long-term incarceration-is to begin training inmates in the same skills I have acquired, so that they can begin to help each other in a positive and purposeful way. They are the people who are best equipped to help others coming into the system-not social workers and psychologists(although they do serve a vital purpose) but other "cons".

As a final thought about Jeremy, I suspect his pain is far more complex, more convoluted than anything I experienced at Saughton. He didn't snap suddenly, nor was he driven by an uncontrollable compulsion, like many of the sex offenders. But instead, without any compunction, affect or emotion, any real sense of guilt or remorse, he planned and schemed and waited for the right moment-when he could kill everybody!  In that sense, I can see now, he really is "evil beyond belief" and there we depart from any common ground. I am nothing like him, and never will be. Jeremy simply served as a conduit through which I could access and begin to understand my own negative or destructive impulses.

In his book Inside Time, author Ken Smith described Jeremy as "a resident monster of the public imagination, dragged out into the tabloids to rattle at the public from time to time," and as such, "occupies a strange corner in the human psyche".

Yes, Jeremy Bamber touches the imagination-and it's a role he carries very well for us-but let's not forget that he is also very real and very dangerous. Can we ever really risk letting him out of that role, out of prison? I very much doubt it.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1423 on: May 28, 2017, 05:15:PM »
So what happened with my quest to find the "crock of gold"-my personal Grail? As a metaphor, was it just an illusion, or did I really discover what I was looking for? At some time or another we all dream of finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, yet it always seems an impossible dream; one which is just within walking distance of a solution, yet forever just over the hill. And that's where it's meant to be: just out of reach and forever urging us forward.

Bambs dreamed of wealth and a strong, creative husband to fulfil a life without worry but, like Psyche, her dream was clouded by her beauty. Jeremy also dreamt of riches, but impatient for luxury and fast-living-power-it ate at his soul, turned to greed and became his captor. Now he is even further away from the love that he and Bambs so desperately needed in an environment even more severe than the boarding school he had resented so much. That is a tragedy.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #1424 on: May 28, 2017, 05:22:PM »
A child's view of a rainbow will always have mysterious significance, for we may never know what they have not yet forgotten. Nicholas often included one in his pictures but was never, as far as I know, told of the crock of gold. And in Daniel's case the gold was already in his heart as love and compassion. For me, it will always be the hope that, one day, I will meet my loved ones once again and walk with them in the forest of many colours. I also began to realise that, with all my searching on the horizon, I had failed to look at the ground at my feet, or inside me.

A rainbow is light broken down into its component parts; making the invisible visible and projecting it on a screen, usually a dark sky. In my own case a dark experience. Finding the pot of gold is about bringing all those colours back together again, inside our own hearts.