Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[Samson]

The shell casings are in the bedroom not the stairs.

It actually makes little difference but you keep claiming things as fact which you can't possibly know.

Prove what couldn't happen and you are left with what must have happened to paraphrase Sherlock Holmes.
Start with the notion it is impossible to persuade a young woman to lie down and be shot in suicide pose beside the wrecked body of her mother, and after shooting her twins 8 times in the head.
Move on to the stupidity of shooting a woman before a 2 meter tall fit farmer from a doorway.
Eventually you arrive at what must have happened, and my reconstruction is as close as need be, ask Taff Jones please.
What is in the water up there? You can't hoodwink us in New Zealand.

[Steve_uk]

Prove what couldn't happen and you are left with what must have happened to paraphrase Sherlock Holmes.
Start with the notion it is impossible to persuade a young woman to lie down and be shot in suicide pose beside the wrecked body of her mother, and after shooting her twins 8 times in the head.
Move on to the stupidity of shooting a woman before a 2 meter tall fit farmer from a doorway.
Eventually you arrive at what must have happened, and my reconstruction is as close as need be, ask Taff Jones please.
What is in the water up there? You can't hoodwink us in New Zealand.

You were hoodwinked over David Bain, but as there's 11,000 miles between us I'll let that suffice. As for Sheila let's get this right:

Saturday night she spent at a party staring at Julie and admiring her make-up. She had no interest in the twins, who jumped on her lap and felt so exhausted she asked Colin to take her home as she was too frightened to ask her brother. In the end he and Julie took her home and returned to the party.

The following day Colin drove Sheila and the twins down to White House Farm. Sheila never spoke a word in the car.

Monday a workman arrived at the Farm and described a happy, domestic scene with the twins playing normally. The housekeeper Jean Boutell noted no problems.

Tuesday Sheila accompanied her mother to Tiptree on a shopping expedition. She was described as "vacant" by the shopkeeper. On the Tuesday evening June put Sheila on the telephone when Pamela called at 10pm but Sheila didn't say "goodnight Auntie Pam" as usual. June said her daughter was tired and was off to bed.

Suddenly at some point in the night Sheila turns into some whirling dervish and remembers the gun on the settle that Jeremy, then June, then Nevill forgot to make safe. The bullets which Jeremy spilled in full view on the blue and white chequered worktop and whose remainder are too numerous to tally with the bullets used in the crime are again left out by June after her sister's telephone call and Nevill's late night walk with the dog.

Sheila takes up the rifle, creeps upstairs (before or after her period?) and shoots Nevill on the stairs or in the bedroom or both, shoots June in bed, kills her sons, manages to cut off a call from her father to Jeremy but not to Police, struggles with him in the kitchen during which a light fitting gets smashed, bashes him over the head with the rifle stock then writes a suicide note waiting for Police to arrive, shoots herself once in the kitchen then scampers back up the staircase and chooses to lie down next to June whereupon she decides to shoot herself again out of earshot of Police, who by this time have stormed the building. She has changed out of her bloodstained clothes, leaving her tracksuit bottoms and knickers to soak whilst burning her top and bra in the Aga and changing into her nightie for comfort..
https://youtu.be/Jbr4sSXHGRw

[Samson]

You were hoodwinked over David Bain, but as there's 11,000 miles between us I'll let that suffice. As for Sheila let's get this right:

Saturday night she spent at a party staring at Julie and admiring her make-up. She had no interest in the twins, who jumped on her lap and felt so exhausted she asked Colin to take her home as she was too frightened to ask her brother. In the end he and Julie took her home and returned to the party.

The following day Colin drove Sheila and the twins down to White House Farm. Sheila never spoke a word in the car.

Monday a workman arrived at the Farm and described a happy, domestic scene with the twins playing normally. The housekeeper Jean Boutell noted no problems.

Tuesday Sheila accompanied her mother to Tiptree on a shopping expedition. She was described as "vacant" by the shopkeeper. On the Tuesday evening June put Sheila on the telephone when Pamela called at 10pm but Sheila didn't say "goodnight Auntie Pam" as usual. June said her daughter was tired and was off to bed.

Suddenly at some point in the night Sheila turns into some whirling dervish and remembers the gun on the settle that Jeremy, then June, then Nevill forgot to make safe. The bullets which Jeremy spilled in full view on the blue and white chequered worktop and whose remainder are too numerous to tally with the bullets used in the crime are again left out by June after her sister's telephone call and Nevill's late night walk with the dog.

Sheila takes up the rifle, creeps upstairs (before or after her period?) and shoots Nevill on the stairs or in the bedroom or both, shoots June in bed, kills her sons, manages to cut off a call from her father to Jeremy but not to Police, struggles with him in the kitchen during which a light fitting gets smashed, bashes him over the head with the rifle stock then writes a suicide note waiting for Police to arrive, shoots herself once in the kitchen then scampers back up the staircase and chooses to lie down next to June whereupon she decides to shoot herself again out of earshot of Police, who by this time have stormed the building. She has changed out of her bloodstained clothes, leaving her tracksuit bottoms and knickers to soak whilst burning her top and bra in the Aga and changing into her nightie for comfort..
https://youtu.be/Jbr4sSXHGRw

From this litany of false statements could you please provide documentation of the suicide note as proven to be found at the crime scene. The one I have seen is not written by Sheila, the cursive at the base of the letters is completely different.
Beyond that, there was no fight in the kitchen, and the scratch under the mantle piece is planted evidence, by Stan Jones or Ann Eaton, take your pick.

[notsure]

Did he ever have the slightest inkling of the impact of his crimes or prepare in any way for the aftermath? He knows like the fox that the killing of Nicholas and Daniel was totally unjustifiable which is why he brought them into the letter, mentioning them by name. They died along with Sheila so he did not have to share the spoils, they were not emotionally disturbed but had survived the school of hard knocks and felt a compassion for their fellow friends unique in children of their age, a trait they had inherited from both their unassuming, altruistic parents.

that didn't answer my question at all steve, read my post again.

[Samson]

I have highlighted on kindle many passages from Carol Ann Lee's excellent book, which she purports to sign off with an open verdict. LOL.

Although the scene was treated as a major crime scene, there was without doubt a certain lack of urgency in submission of articles to the laboratory and a mistake was made in advising the coroner that the bodies of the victims could be disposed of. Also, as will be seen from the statements of the Eatons and Boutflours, the police search of the premises failed to reveal a vital piece of evidence, namely the sound moderator. Additionally, the police failed to realise the significance of Sheila’s appearance, ie., relatively clean hands and nails immaculate, feet clear of blood. Also the failure to realise that Sheila, in her nightdress, had no means readily available to enable her to carry around the necessary cartridges to reload the rifle at least twice. I make these points at this stage of the report as I feel strongly that the prosecution will receive justifiable criticism from the defence on these points and it would be foolish for us not to agree that this was the case.

So:
Sheila had no means to carry cartridges to reload.

At which point did she require cartridges at hand?

She emptied 5 to June and 4 to Nevill, who by this time had his head in the coal scuttle.
The twins slept through all this, we know because they were shot later, and they were asleep.
She reloaded and delivered two pairs of shots to Nevill's head, then on heading upstairs found June had crawled to the doorway. She mercy killed June, then reloaded and mercy killed the twins.

Much later she shot herself, because the livor mortis had not started when photographed.

[Adam]

The shell casings show where the shooter was standing. They are scattered around the doorway. Sheila shot June 5 times then immediately prepared to shoot Nevill as he came up the stairs. She shot him twice surprising him, as he could not see her till he came around the winder. He turned and she fired twice at his left shoulder and the gun was empty.
That is what happened Hartley.

Have you got an independent diagram of the bullet casing location in the bedroom ?

[Adam]

I have highlighted on kindle many passages from Carol Ann Lee's excellent book, which she purports to sign off with an open verdict. LOL.

Although the scene was treated as a major crime scene, there was without doubt a certain lack of urgency in submission of articles to the laboratory and a mistake was made in advising the coroner that the bodies of the victims could be disposed of. Also, as will be seen from the statements of the Eatons and Boutflours, the police search of the premises failed to reveal a vital piece of evidence, namely the sound moderator. Additionally, the police failed to realise the significance of Sheila’s appearance, ie., relatively clean hands and nails immaculate, feet clear of blood. Also the failure to realise that Sheila, in her nightdress, had no means readily available to enable her to carry around the necessary cartridges to reload the rifle at least twice. I make these points at this stage of the report as I feel strongly that the prosecution will receive justifiable criticism from the defence on these points and it would be foolish for us not to agree that this was the case.

So:
Sheila had no means to carry cartridges to reload.

At which point did she require cartridges at hand?

She emptied 5 to June and 4 to Nevill, who by this time had his head in the coal scuttle.
The twins slept through all this, we know because they were shot later, and they were asleep.
She reloaded and delivered two pairs of shots to Nevill's head, then on heading upstairs found June had crawled to the doorway. She mercy killed June, then reloaded and mercy killed the twins.

Much later she shot herself, because the livor mortis had not started when photographed.

All this about the police & crime scene is common knowledge. It was the way all police worked then. Douglas Hurd making new laws on how crime scenes are treated after the trial.

I agree the twins slept through it all. If they slept through a Sheila massacre, they would certainly sleep through a Bamber massacre, as Sheila would have as well.

I also agree Sheila or Bamber didn't need to take cartridges upstairs with them. Both would have gone upstairs with a fully loaded rifle. Sheila after Nevill let her load the magazine into the rifle and go upstairs.

[susan]

My home too,Susan. A taboo subject only spoken of in mime fashion when mum spoke to her sister ( Cissie and Ada style )

Hahaha Lookout I remember that too X

[susan]

Yeah, I don't think that anymore since Caroline showed that it was a toy silencer.

Morning Hartley

I cannot find the post in which Caroline suggested the tampon was used as a small silencer although it would be the kinda thing children would use especially with a small gun and I now don't think it has anything to do with the murders along with lots of other stuff posted on here

[guest7363]

The shell casings are in the bedroom not the stairs.

It actually makes little difference but you keep claiming things as fact which you can't possibly know.

People are very creative and the Internet allows them to pull up items that they think are facts, when in fact, they’re not facts Hartley.

[guest2181]

Morning Hartley

I cannot find the post in which Caroline suggested the tampon was used as a small silencer although it would be the kinda thing children would use especially with a small gun and I now don't think it has anything to do with the murders along with lots of other stuff posted on here

Morning Susan.

I think Caroline made the suggestion yesterday but I can't seem to find it now.
The suggestion of the children playing with it was also made in a couple of old threads back in 2011 and 2012. Along with suggestions that it was planted.

I must admit, I didn't really appreciate exactly what it was. Ann seemed to think it was an odd place for it to be. 

[Caroline]

Morning Susan.

I think Caroline made the suggestion yesterday but I can't seem to find it now.
The suggestion of the children playing with it was also made in a couple of old threads back in 2011 and 2012. Along with suggestions that it was planted.

I must admit, I didn't really appreciate exactly what it was. Ann seemed to think it was an odd place for it to be. 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7101.msg385284.html#msg385284

[Steve_uk]

that didn't answer my question at all steve, read my post again.

Does anybody ever answer anyone? Anyway he's guilty so your cri de coeur fell on deaf ears I'm afraid.

[notsure]

Does anybody ever answer anyone? Anyway he's guilty so your cri de coeur fell on deaf ears I'm afraid.

lol yes it did didn't it, never mind eh

[Steve_uk]

lol yes it did didn't it, never mind eh

Jeremy committed the acts thinking he was doing everyone a favour, the largest beneficiary being himself. His letters to Colin show the bitterness that he profited from a book, the relatives inherited the bulk of the estate and Jeremy himself ended up with nothing.

His campaign since is symptomatic of the mindset of a mass murderer bent on deception and not someone who genuinely feels aggrieved through a miscarriage of justice.