Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[Adam]

And I'd read that Sheila was 5' 8,so there you are,so many conflicting reports. However,regardless of height,which doesn't necessarily come into having the same strength ,it makes no difference.

I mentioned height regarding the downward trajectory.

Some of Nevill's shots apparently having a downward trajectory somehow shows Sheila was the killer. Although Bamber is a lot taller and was wearing shoes.

[lookout]

I mentioned height regarding the downward trajectory.

Some of Nevill's shots apparently having a downward trajectory somehow shows Sheila was the killer. Although Bamber is a lot taller and was wearing shoes.

Neville would have been sitting,wouldn't he ? And a tall Sheila hovering over him with a rifle at close range.

[Samson]

Equally ridiculous is Nevill somehow heard the upstairs shots & charged upstairs bare footed in pyjamas. Then let Sheila get the rifle within inches of his face, before retreating straight back downstairs.

Nevill would have run upstairs with the sole purpose to instantly jump on Sheila.

Adam, your would haves reveal your ineptitude.
Sheila knew with great certainty that Nevill would hear her shooting June, so swivelled in preparation to shoot him as he ascended the stairs. You might consider how reactive the human mind is, automatically adjusting to sure pending circumstance.

[Adam]

Neville would have been sitting,wouldn't he ? And a tall Sheila hovering over him with a rifle at close range.

All shots into Nevill, Sheila could have fired. He was dead for the kitchen shots. After amazingly and conviently landing face first on a coal scuttle. The upstairs arm and shoulder shots could have been fired by Sheila as well.

The exceptions are the first two upstairs face shots, where the rifle was inches from Nevill's face.

There is no way Nevill would run upstairs and not charge and jump on Sheila. Almost certainly before Sheila was able to shoot him. He had heard gun shots so couldn't have been caught by surprise.

[Adam]

Adam, your would haves reveal your ineptitude.
Sheila knew with great certainty that Nevill would hear her shooting June, so swivelled in preparation to shoot him as he ascended the stairs. You might consider how reactive the human mind is, automatically adjusting to sure pending circumstance.

It seems that Sheila was a trained SAS commando.

[Samson]

It seems that Sheila was a trained SAS commando.

No, that is nonsense Adam. Sheila was now adrenaline pumped, she knew with blind certainty it was him or her when he ascended those stairs, and this confers specific and unexpected powers and focus.
I am unclear why you post prolifically, and claim to be 19, starting posting at 16. Are you 19 years old?

[lookout]

So,we have 3 adults. Why didn't Neville jump Jeremy and knock him out ? He could very easily have done,no problem rifle or not. He must have been in contact with combatant tactics during the war.
Why didn't the women protect the children ? Why didn't one of them phone the police ? Why didn't any of them do more than they did,as records stated that they were all fit and healthy.
I can't believe a mother wouldn't shield her children and risk death herself in such a situation.

[Adam]

No, that is nonsense Adam. Sheila was now adrenaline pumped, she knew with blind certainty it was him or her when he ascended those stairs, and this confers specific and unexpected powers and focus.
I am unclear why you post prolifically, and claim to be 19, starting posting at 16. Are you 19 years old?

Anyway you're vision is Nevil ran upstairs bare footed and in pyjamas after hearing gun shots.   

Sheila had postioned herself ready so she could fire two face shots into Nevill from inches away. Hapless Nevill who used to be in  the army walking straight into Sheila's arms, or rather shots & not confronting her  at all.

This must have taken place after Bamber answered his phone within 15 seconds.

[lookout]

To my mind,Neville wasn't even upstairs at any point. Where were his clothes anyway ?

[Caroline]

Hartley:
I have little idea of your interest in this case, but let me suggest you seem to require affirmation of the guilty verdict, and accordingly will use band aids to patch the case.
Attention must be drawn to the bloody knickers in the bucket in the kitchen, and the half tampax that the policeman I posted earlier, said was missing, ie the cotton and string loop that were inside Sheila's body when she shot herself.

I have been unable in my research to find anyone who has ever had a daughter leave menstrual blood on knickers soaking in a bucket on a kitchen floor before going to bed.
This is so singular that an alternative explanation must be found. This is Bayes, though I hold little regard for this statistical methodology. It is a device employed to add authenticity to the tin labelled common sense, largely redundant, but enlivens the notion of expert witness.

So we typically might multiply probabilities, I get murdered, I leave my knickers soaking in a bucket in my mother's kitchen and leave a tampon applicator in her lounge, then go to bed, all on the same night.

My analysis inverts this to say these matters are closely causally related, I was interrupted after putting the knickers in the bucket, had an argument with he who interrupted me, he was party to a discussion declaring me an unfit mother, so I seized an available and loaded gun and shot the mother fuckers.
The bucket and tampax bear silent witness.

Please Hartley, bring to the discussion an explanation that contradicts this, but explains a young woman retiring to bed after leaving a disgraceful and negligent hygiene construct.

So everyone was murdered over stained knickers?

WHF was a busy farm and I don't know if you have noticed from the CS pictures but, hygiene was hardly the main though for the day! However, it perfectly reasonable to soak clothes in buckets when the sinks would be in use all day. The kitchen sink for washing up and the scullery sink for washing dirty hands. No one knows who put the clothes in to soak or when they were put there. This theory has no foundation at all!

[Samson]

To my mind,Neville wasn't even upstairs at any point. Where were his clothes anyway ?

So you are somehow suggesting my reconstruction is necessarily wrong?

I don't see how.

1. Phone off hook.
2. Sheila with gun on body and neck wounds consistent with self delivery
3. Cartridge cases in found locations.
4. Menstrual blood on knickers in bucket on kitchen floor.
5. Tampon in body, and complement of tampax in lounge.
6. Downward shots to mouth as though shooter on landing and Nevill below on stairs.
7. June shot while clearly asleep.

One of the problems confronting reconstructionists is that people customarily paint with the broad brush, everything is possible, but this is nonsense, one and only one exact sequence occurred.
A reconstruction will make sense of most evidentiary data points, seldom all.

Nevill was most of the way upstairs when turned back by gun fire.
Is this compatible with " never upstairs"? I think it is, but I am interested in what you mean Lookout.

[Samson]

So everyone was murdered over stained knickers?

WHF was a busy farm and I don't know if you have noticed from the CS pictures but, hygiene was hardly the main though for the day! However, it perfectly reasonable to soak clothes in buckets when the sinks would be in use all day. The kitchen sink for washing up and the scullery sink for washing dirty hands. No one knows who put the clothes in to soak or when they were put there. This theory has no foundation at all!

Yes, in my crime reconstruction, Sheila went downstairs when she found her period began in bed.
Nevill heard her, and went down to see what was going on.
We must find an explanation for everything found at the scene if we can, and unless you can knock on a thousand doors, and discover households where daughters leave menstrual stained knickers in a bucket on the kitchen floor, then retiring to bed, you fail to address this fundamental data point Caroline.
There is a causal connection in my reconstruction, none in yours.

I live in a household with women, and have never seen menstrual blood anywhere.

[Adam]

So you are somehow suggesting my reconstruction is necessarily wrong?

I don't see how.

1. Phone off hook.
2. Sheila with gun on body and neck wounds consistent with self delivery
3. Cartridge cases in found locations.
4. Menstrual blood on knickers in bucket on kitchen floor.
5. Tampon in body, and complement of tampax in lounge.
6. Downward shots to mouth as though shooter on landing and Nevill below on stairs.
7. June shot while clearly asleep.

One of the problems confronting reconstructionists is that people customarily paint with the broad brush, everything is possible, but this is nonsense, one and only one exact sequence occurred.
A reconstruction will make sense of most evidentiary data points, seldom all.

Nevill was most of the way upstairs when turned back by gun fire.
Is this compatible with " never upstairs"? I think it is, but I am interested in what you mean Lookout.

Nevill was shot 4 times in the bedroom. Two face shots were from inches away.

So Sheila could not have opened fire on him as he was coming upstairs. She had to wait until he was in the bedroom.

[Caroline]

Yes, in my crime reconstruction, Sheila went downstairs when she found her period began in bed.
Nevill heard her, and went down to see what was going on.
We must find an explanation for everything found at the scene if we can, and unless you can knock on a thousand doors, and discover households where daughters leave menstrual stained knickers in a bucket on the kitchen floor, then retiring to bed, you fail to address this fundamental data point Caroline.
There is a causal connection in my reconstruction, none in yours.

I live in a household with women, and have never seen menstrual blood anywhere.

You fail to take into account that some of he twins clothes were soaking too. They are just clothes soaking in water, there is nothing sinister about that at all. You have no idea when the washing was put there and just jump to the conclusion that it was during the early hours of the morning with no evidence to support it and you also have no idea who put the clothes into soak in the first place

[Samson]

Anyway you're vision is Nevil ran upstairs bare footed and in pyjamas after hearing gun shots.   

Sheila had postioned herself ready so she could fire two face shots into Nevill from inches away. Hapless Nevill who used to be in  the army walking straight into Sheila's arms, or rather shots & not confronting her  at all.

This must have taken place after Bamber answered his phone within 15 seconds.

Well, the evidence shows this is exactly what happened. Your refutation with incredulity is just where the rubber hits the road, you refute what is the only possible explanation because it flows from your keyboard with grace and style, yet it is a simple truism you confront, fact is stranger than fiction.