Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[Adam]

From the 2002 appeal.

60. Found in or just outside the bedroom were thirteen cartridge cases. Seven would account for the shots into June Bamber, two for the wounds suffered by Sheila Caffell, leaving four cartridge cases that had been fired at Nevill Bamber. Three further cartridge cases were found in the kitchen, with a further case on the stairs leading up from the kitchen.

If one accepts that the four shots to the head which would have immobilised and killed Nevill Bamber were fired in the kitchen where his body was recovered, it would follow that he had received the less serious injuries upstairs in the bedroom and was then able to make his way downstairs where he was subsequently killed.

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The two close range head shots to Nevill were when he was getting out of bed.

The other two body shots were when Nevill was standing up & moving towards the door. Bamber moving backwards to avoid physical confrontation but continuing to fire until out of bullets.

[Adam]

64.

In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.

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There is no way a standing up and fully awake Nevill would have let someone put a rifle a few inches from his face. He must have been in the process of standing up when receiving his first two close range head shots. Caught by surprise while in bed. Highlighted by being found downstairs bare footed and in pyjamas.

[Caroline]

Well no. the first two shots were focussed, a pair to the mouth from close range, but downwards trajectory.
This can only be explained by shooter at the doorway on the landing. and Nevill coming up to this unpleasant surprise.
This fits the placing of the cartridge cases.

The downward shots are from behind so Nevill wasn't coming UP the stairs.

[Adam]

A fully awake and standing up Nevill would have ducked and used his hands to re direct a rifle that was coming towards his face. It's a natural reaction.

With the rifle and shooter so close, there would have been a physical confrontation. There wasn't.

Supporters say Nevill was caught by surprise. After hearing upstairs gun shots ?

However if in bed not fully awake and getting up it is possible that Bamber managed two face shots. Which is what he was aiming for.

[Jaycad73]

The downward shots are from behind so Nevill wasn't coming UP the stairs.

Were the downward shots the final wounds inflicted on Neville i.e. execution style?

[Caroline]

Were the downward shots the final wounds inflicted on Neville i.e. execution style?

The head shots yes.  To clarify, my pervious post was in relation to the shoulder and arm shots.

[lookout]

Were the downward shots the final wounds inflicted on Neville i.e. execution style?

Frenzied style as opposed to" execution style".

[Samson]

Antipodeans come with clear sight. The houses are garish in the sunlight.

Nostalgia-NZ seems to believe the foillowing. He is very experienced in cases of this sort.

"I hope so, this is a startlingly bad case, polluted by the noise of people who were not there and investigators who wouldn't or couldn't observe clear scene evidence which told its own story. When you have a world class forensic pathologist's evidence like Knight's overlooked by a Judge who interrupts the witnesses and lawyers mid flight, along with a wailing harridan like JM, I guess not much can be expected by the way of Justice.

One sentence could do; 'observe the trajectories.' "

[Jaycad73]

Frenzied style as opposed to" execution style".

I'd have to disagree-the other wounds could be described as 'frenzied' but the right hand side head shots are close together and appear deliberately so in order to finish the job-same with the shot to June in betwwen the eyes after a random pattern to the other wounds.
The phrase that I used ('execution style') still applies if the shooter was Sheila rather than Jeremy as the 'style' was to 'finish off' an already incapacitated victim.

[lookout]

I'd have to disagree-the other wounds could be described as 'frenzied' but the right hand side head shots are close together and appear deliberately so in order to finish the job-same with the shot to June in betwwen the eyes after a random pattern to the other wounds.
The phrase that I used ('execution style') still applies if the shooter was Sheila rather than Jeremy as the 'style' was to 'finish off' an already incapacitated victim.

Just one shot between the eyes would be execution style in my books,but because there were several other shots combined, it showed the killer as a novice,whereas,someone with intention would only have used one bullet each.
This wasn't a planned attack.

[Jaycad73]

Just one shot between the eyes would be execution style in my books,but because there were several other shots combined, it showed the killer as a novice,whereas,someone with intention would only have used one bullet each.
This wasn't a planned attack.

Surely that would depend on the skill of the shooter and/or the power of the gun used? My view is that the killer fired a number of shots at Nevill and June (I don't mean at both of them at the same time) from a short distance, maybe this was to incapacitate them with the intention to finish them off with a contact shot without any resistance, but I think the killer either overestimated the rifle or underestimated the resilience of Nevill and June and had to finish the job with close up/contact shots, there is a sense of overkill with regards to Nevill and also the twins.

[Caroline]

I'd have to disagree-the other wounds could be described as 'frenzied' but the right hand side head shots are close together and appear deliberately so in order to finish the job-same with the shot to June in betwwen the eyes after a random pattern to the other wounds.
The phrase that I used ('execution style') still applies if the shooter was Sheila rather than Jeremy as the 'style' was to 'finish off' an already incapacitated victim.

Totally agree Jaycad.

[David1819]

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There is no way a standing up and fully awake Nevill would have let someone put a rifle a few inches from his face.

What's to stop someone from doing so?

                         
He must have been in the process of standing up when receiving his first two close range head shots. Caught by surprise while in bed. Highlighted by being found downstairs bare footed and in pyjamas.

The shooter was standing at a higher level than Neville. Because the trajectories are all at a downward angle.

[guest2181]

The shooter was standing at a higher level than Neville. Because the trajectories are all at a downward angle.

Shots 1-4: All would have been instantly fatal. Likely inflicted after death or whilst Nevill was unconscious.

Shots 5-6: These two shots are not really on a downwards trajectory, just off horizontal. Must have caused great pain but were not immediately fatal. Likely to have been inflicted in the master bedroom due to shell case locations.

Shot 7: This shot does have a downwards trajectory and it is likely that this shot was inflicted as Nevill descended the main staircase.

Shot 8: It's difficult to know if this shot had a downwards trajectory or not, as we do not know the position of Nevill's arm when shot. Shell casings suggest that this shot was inflicted in the doorway or just outside the main bedroom.

[Adam]

What's to stop someone from doing so?

The shooter was standing at a higher level than Neville. Because the trajectories are all at a downward angle.

That's what I said, Bamber fired the first two shots into Nevill's face at a downward trajectory. As Nevill was getting out of bed.

The next two shots into the body was as Bamber retreated slightly now Nevill was standing up. Which is not surprising as Nevill was a big man.