Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[Roch]

What do you believe Sheila did after the police arrived ?  -


Fired 24 bullets. Into 3 sleeping people and one awake person. In three different locations. Both up and down stairs.

Chambered twice.

Reloaded twice.

Fought and brutally beat Neville.

Postioned Neville on top of a coal scuttle.

Burnt Neville's back.

Wrote a long suicide note.

Had a shower.

Put a nightie on.

Fetched a bible.

Read a bible.

Shot herself once.

Went downstairs and put the silencer away.

Shot herself again.

Adam, I don't get where you're coming from - so cannot provide you with the type of answer you are seeking.  My guess is that the incident may have flared up several times during the night.  Or it may have deteriorated extremely quickly, without sufficient prior warning signals.  I doubt Nevill could have foreseen the grave and lethal danger that his family were in. Otherwise, perhaps the situation could have been diffused earlier, by timely restraint or outside intervention.  Clearly it wasn't.  I do not see significance you are attaching to the arrival of CA7 (for reasons already stated).

[Steve_uk]

Are we agreed that there were no shots fired within the confines of the house after Police arrived at 3:48am or they would surely have been heard? Wasn't the master bedroom window ajar?

[David1819]

Are we agreed that there were no shots fired within the confines of the house after Police arrived at 3:48am or they would surely have been heard? Wasn't the master bedroom window ajar?

Not necessarily, a .22lr with subsonic ammunition does not make a lot of noise. I believe the only two shots fired after the police arrived were the two shots inflicted on Sheila's neck/chin. With the barrel end  in contact with the body it would have muffled the noise.

[Steve_uk]

Not necessarily, a .22lr with subsonic ammunition does not make a lot of noise. I believe the only two shots fired after the police arrived were the two shots inflicted on Sheila's neck/chin. With the barrel end  in contact with the body it would have muffled the noise.

Well someone walking their dog in the neighbourhood that last night around 10:30pm heard a shot and he must have been further away..

[Roch]

Are we agreed that there were no shots fired within the confines of the house after Police arrived at 3:48am or they would surely have been heard? Wasn't the master bedroom window ajar?

No sure.  As Jeremy Bamber and the crew of CA7 remained some 200 yards from the farmhouse (other than when the initial recce was carried out - which led to the 'sighting').  That is a considerable distance - approx 182 metres.  Was a similar weapon not shown by Boyce to be relatively quiet when fired?

[guest7363]

No sure.  As Jeremy Bamber and the crew of CA7 remained some 200 yards from the farmhouse (other than when the initial recce was carried out - which led to the 'sighting').  That is a considerable distance - approx 182 metres.  Was a similar weapon not shown by Boyce to be relatively quiet when fired?

Why do we hear sound father away at night better than during the day?  Because everything is much quieter.

[guest7363]

Wonder why if Sheila was in such a rage as suggested, she never reloaded and took pop shots at Bamber and the police?  Or killed the dogs because they must have been driving her crazy?  She must have known the police were coming because she cut Neville off the phone if you believe it?

[Steve_uk]

Wonder why if Sheila was in such a rage as suggested, she never reloaded and took pop shots at Bamber and the police?  Or killed the dogs because they must have been driving her crazy?  She must have known the police were coming because she cut Neville off the phone if you believe it?

I suppose that brings us back to the "suicide note" and some reference to when Police arrive..

[Roch]

Wonder why if Sheila was in such a rage as suggested, she never reloaded and took pop shots at Bamber and the police?  Or killed the dogs because they must have been driving her crazy?  She must have known the police were coming because she cut Nevill off the phone if you believe it?

The killer's victims were shot at close range.  If the killer was Sheila, then I wonder whether she started the incident in a rage or not?  Perhaps she just made up her mind and began shooting.  Though I understand Nevill suffered terrible injuries.

[David1819]

Well someone walking their dog in the neighbourhood that last night around 10:30pm heard a shot and he must have been further away..

Could have been a shotgun or not a gunshot at all

[David1819]

Wonder why if Sheila was in such a rage as suggested, she never reloaded and took pop shots at Bamber and the police?  Or killed the dogs because they must have been driving her crazy?  She must have known the police were coming because she cut Neville off the phone if you believe it?

She had no motive or reason to shoot the police or Jeremy. Its very hard for us to put ourselves in Sheila's mind.

There are three motives that overlap

Motive A) Believes the twins are possessed by the devil, Hatred against June, and also wants to end her life. No known hatred for Neville however in the house he is an obstacle that needs to be eliminated in order to kill June, the twins and herself.

Motive B) The threat of having her children taken away from her combined with her parents suggesting and supporting the idea. This creates the motive for altruistic filicide and could also create a dislike of Neville.

Motive C) She could also have killed the twins in an act of what is know as spouse revenge filicide. Wanting to make Colin suffer for one reason or another by killing the children.


I cant think of reason why she would want to shoot the police or Jeremy. Plus it was dark outside most of the time.

[Adam]

Adam, I don't get where you're coming from - so cannot provide you with the type of answer you are seeking.  My guess is that the incident may have flared up several times during the night.  Or it may have deteriorated extremely quickly, without sufficient prior warning signals.  I doubt Nevill could have foreseen the grave and lethal danger that his family were in. Otherwise, perhaps the situation could have been diffused earlier, by timely restraint or outside intervention.  Clearly it wasn't.  I do not see significance you are attaching to the arrival of CA7 (for reasons already stated).

I have asked the same question 4 times. You have failed to give an answer.

You say Sheila could have continued carrying out the massacre after the police arrived.  Then refuse to say what you believe she could have done.

A lot of the 14 things on my list, Sheila may not have done. Such as shower, write a suicide note, change clothes, read the bible and put the silencer away. These are all things supporters have made up and claimed Sheila did. You had the option to discard any of these so she had more chance of completing the massacre in the time scale before the police arrived. 

You also had the option of discarding the made up claim that Neville called the fifth furthest away police station. Which even Bamber does not believe happened. This would have given Sheila 38 minutes to complete everything. Rather than 22 minutes.

Just like all supporters you discarded nothing. To be fair, unlike other supporters you then attempted to justify this and said Sheila continued after the police arrived. Which is a new theory. But then didn't say what you believe she could have done and tried to deflect attention onto me.

[Steve_uk]

She had no motive or reason to shoot the police or Jeremy. Its very hard for us to put ourselves in Sheila's mind.

There are three motives that overlap

Motive A) Believes the twins are possessed by the devil, Hatred against June, and also wants to end her life. No known hatred for Neville however in the house he is an obstacle that needs to be eliminated in order to kill June, the twins and herself.

Motive B) The threat of having her children taken away from her combined with her parents suggesting and supporting the idea. This creates the motive for altruistic filicide and could also create a dislike of Neville.

Motive C) She could also have killed the twins in an act of what is know as spouse revenge filicide. Wanting to make Colin suffer for one reason or another by killing the children.


I cant think of reason why she would want to shoot the police or Jeremy. Plus it was dark outside most of the time.

Well the quote ascribed to her is "All people are bad and should be killed" which if you take her own logic make your discrete categories irrelevant. It's very unlikely that Nevill and June would add to Sheila's worries by any threats, and this seems to be borne out during the telephone conversation with Pamela and June at 10pm. Far more likely as Julie alleges the fostering issue was raised in the first instance by Jeremy in yet a further attempt to sow discord in that family, and of course we know in retrospect from Call 1 between Jeremy and Julie that incredibly he still had not made his mind up fully to exterminate all, which must make Julie feel all the more liable when she reflects on matters at a distance in the cold light of day.

[David1819]

Well the quote ascribed to her is "All people are bad and should be killed" which if you take her own logic make your discrete categories irrelevant.

She is not thinking logically, she is thinking emotionally

[guest7363]

The killer's victims were shot at close range.  If the killer was Sheila, then I wonder whether she started the incident in a rage or not?  Perhaps she just made up her mind and began shooting.  Though I understand Nevill suffered terrible injuries.

Dont forget those words, "Sheila's gone Crazy, she has got a gun" that to me is someone that's lost it, not someone just making their mind up.  If we take Jeremy's word, would Neville have got Jeremy out of bed at that time in a morning knowing full well his son had, had such a long hard day at the farm,if Sheila wasn't going crazy? 

I honestly believe that had someone been alive in the house, word would have filtered throughout that someone was alive and a positive and encouraging word would have been passed on to Jeremy, all Jeremy mentions is the dog whining until the police sorted things out, that's in his statement 7th Aug with everything fresh in his mind.