Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[lebaleb]

It was evident in the Will that no love was lost between families and the last straw would have appeared to have been the measley  amount which had been left to the Boutflours. Personally I'd have taken it as an insult given the amount involved,but I certainly wouldn't have gone as far as seeing someone spend their days behind bars ! "No love lost between the families? These were family/relatives who shared the running of the Osea Property! They were also from a generation of farmers that covered a large amount of land in Essex. Jeremy Bamber knew what was written in the Wills before the murders having found them in Neville's Safe, hence NB finding a new hiding place for the safe key. I very much doubt that the Boutflour's knew the contents of the Will before the murders. Knowing the contents of the Will also gives JB a motive for murder.


Neither Sheila nor Jeremy were streetwise like everyone else as they'd had pretty sheltered lives within the confines of WHF then onto boarding school. Neville's reason for sending Jeremy to a public school was because one day there would be ex-pupils from local schools working on the farm that he hadn't wished his son to work alongside as a labourer,so the arrogance stemmed from there.   |Rubbish, JB's arrogance was evident at a much early age as told by his headmaster, his father sent him to boarding school, as any parent with the means to do so would, to give his son the best start in life. 
On the contrary,it was the relatives who'd have been jealous of Jeremy and possibly the Bambers    Neville was the typical gentleman farmer and wanted Jeremy to follow in his footsteps*.But JB didn't want to be a farmer, he wanted to be a playboy.
The relatives went half-way in making sure that this never happened*. If the relatives were jealous of the Bamber family, and that's what happens with a lot of families, they didn't commit murder to obtain wealth! I can quite understand how the family felt on finding out the only person left alive on that night was JB and his attitude! I'd have gone through that house with a fine tooth comb, then of course if finding anything incriminating it would be hard to to be believed...as Ann Eaton etc found out!  Which reminds me how did JB know how much money was in his father's wallet? 
JB was the one who loved the good life for himself, even telling EP whilst outside WHF on the night of the murders he was going to get a porsche! His only interest was in himself and what he could get from the family, he must be gutted it didn't turn out how he planned.

About the cash in the wallet, 500 pounds was a massive amount in those days not an amount one would carry around for no reason. It must have been from someone or for something which Neville would probably not have made a secret of and may have mentioned to June or Jeremy.
AE states that at WHF, RWB was dispached to look for cash in Neville's clothes. When Jeremy discovered the wallet was missing RWB became visibly distressed.
I suspect that Jeremy and Neville were closer than people knew because of the cannabis that Jeremy knew was in the safe. AE's excuse was that several years earlier Roland had a drug problem, well that makes no sense as any normal person, especially a magistrate, would have flushed it down the toilet not kept it in their safe. It wouldn't surprise me if Neville and Jeremy partook of the occasional smoke together.

[Steve_uk]

About the cash in the wallet, 500 pounds was a massive amount in those days not an amount one would carry around for no reason. It must have been from someone or for something which Neville would probably not have made a secret of and may have mentioned to June or Jeremy.
AE states that at WHF, RWB was dispached to look for cash in Neville's clothes. When Jeremy discovered the wallet was missing RWB became visibly distressed.
I suspect that Jeremy and Neville were closer than people knew because of the cannabis that Jeremy knew was in the safe. AE's excuse was that several years earlier Roland had a drug problem, well that makes no sense as any normal person, especially a magistrate, would have flushed it down the toilet not kept it in their safe. It wouldn't surprise me if Neville and Jeremy partook of the occasional smoke together.

What nonsense. Nevill had recently give up smoking as reported by Barbara Wilson and as a local magistrate wouldn't have fallen foul of the law. I'm sure we would have heard about any indiscretions from Jeremy that first morning at Goldhanger anyhow as he seemed to blacken everyone else.

Did Jeremy empty the contents of his father's wallet as he had done with June's handbag and the Osea Road takings?

[lookout]

Presumably June's/Sheila's handbag was still intact on the telephone table in the kitchen when photographs were taken. We'd have heard soon enough had both the wallet and purse been emptied of its contents because JB would have got the blame for that too and it would have been added to the " long list " of alleged thefts.

[lookout]

Where " rights " are concerned,if I were to vote on this issue,my vote would go to Jeremy above everyone.

It's been so easy to point a finger at the man in so many ways,yet no thought was ever given to the " fragile " health of Sheila,and nobody on this earth could say what had been going on in her mind. The majority of people have said that Sheila wasn't a violent person--------but neither was Jeremy.

In Sheila's case,it had nothing whatsoever to do with violence,her problem was based on FEAR !
As we all know,  fear can be  both a fight or flight situation according to the release of adrenaline/noradrenaline and has NOTHING to do with aggression when someone is having a psychotic episode. Their emotional imbalance,coupled with a borderline personality disorder brings about an uncontrollable behaviour that in many cases is out of character in certain people who are not known for having a violent/aggressive disposition.
 Jeremy has been " holed-up " long enough for people to see if he displayed violent tendencies--------and he doesn't,so it was utterly impossible for him to have murdered anyone when he can't even muster the " energy " to keep banging his cell door out of protest,or drawing attention in some way.

I think that Sheila's psychiatrist should hang his head in shame for having let her down and also ignoring the warning signs as Sheila had told him how she'd felt as she'd literally put herself on the line and had told him what she felt she was capable of. Sheila had been a frightened girl where her fear had taken over her life. NOBODY listened !!

Fear because she'd " lost " her husband.Fear of " losing " her children. Fear of her mother.Fear of what was happening to her,healthwise.Fear of isolation. When so much fear builds up it leads to aggression where that person is no longer responsible for their actions because of irrational thoughts and behaviour.

Much has yet to be read regarding Sheila's medical notes and I can guarantee that when the time comes that we can read of Sheila's mental health status, that we'll then understand that she was a very unstable woman.

[lebaleb]

What nonsense. Nevill had recently give up smoking as reported by Barbara Wilson and as a local magistrate wouldn't have fallen foul of the law. I'm sure we would have heard about any indiscretions from Jeremy that first morning at Goldhanger anyhow as he seemed to blacken everyone else.

Did Jeremy empty the contents of his father's wallet as he had done with June's handbag and the Osea Road takings?

So explain the cannabis in the safe. Giving up cigarettes doesn't mean giving up cannabis. Jeremy said they would get a surprise when they opened the safe.
Jeremy did not empty the contents of the wallet, the whole wallet went missing.

[Steve_uk]

Where " rights " are concerned,if I were to vote on this issue,my vote would go to Jeremy above everyone.

It's been so easy to point a finger at the man in so many ways,yet no thought was ever given to the " fragile " health of Sheila,and nobody on this earth could say what had been going on in her mind. The majority of people have said that Sheila wasn't a violent person--------but neither was Jeremy.

In Sheila's case,it had nothing whatsoever to do with violence,her problem was based on FEAR !
As we all know,  fear can be  both a fight or flight situation according to the release of adrenaline/noradrenaline and has NOTHING to do with aggression when someone is having a psychotic episode. Their emotional imbalance,coupled with a borderline personality disorder brings about an uncontrollable behaviour that in many cases is out of character in certain people who are not known for having a violent/aggressive disposition.
 Jeremy has been " holed-up " long enough for people to see if he displayed violent tendencies--------and he doesn't,so it was utterly impossible for him to have murdered anyone when he can't even muster the " energy " to keep banging his cell door out of protest,or drawing attention in some way.

I think that Sheila's psychiatrist should hang his head in shame for having let her down and also ignoring the warning signs as Sheila had told him how she'd felt as she'd literally put herself on the line and had told him what she felt she was capable of. Sheila had been a frightened girl where her fear had taken over her life. NOBODY listened !!

Fear because she'd " lost " her husband.Fear of " losing " her children. Fear of her mother.Fear of what was happening to her,healthwise.Fear of isolation. When so much fear builds up it leads to aggression where that person is no longer responsible for their actions because of irrational thoughts and behaviour.

Much has yet to be read regarding Sheila's medical notes and I can guarantee that when the time comes that we can read of Sheila's mental health status, that we'll then understand that she was a very unstable woman.

That's very well written lookout and who can gainsay that an uptorn Sheila wasn't the vulnerable person that could just have lashed out during a crisis which could have occurred that night, if we are to believe that her children were to be taken from her and her parents' ministrations seen as a further threat were she to be deprived of the security of St. Andrews hospital. I doubt we will ever see Sheila's full medical notes until Dr. Ferguson's death, but what is available in this regard has always seemed to me to be sincere, though of course with mother and daughter having consulted the same physician it does give that individual an inordinate power as to their diagnosis.

[Steve_uk]

So explain the cannabis in the safe. Giving up cigarettes doesn't mean giving up cannabis. Jeremy said they would get a surprise when they opened the safe.
Jeremy did not empty the contents of the wallet, the whole wallet went missing.

We have no way of knowing how long the cannabis resin had resided in the safe; far more likely Jeremy planted it there to raise the very suspicions to which you have alluded. If the whole wallet went missing then far more likely Jeremy took all the money therefrom, as Ann Eaton suspected he had acted similarly with his mother's handbag.

[lookout]

That's very well written lookout and who can gainsay that an uptorn Sheila wasn't the vulnerable person that could just have lashed out during a crisis which could have occurred that night, if we are to believe that her children were to be taken from her and her parents' ministrations seen as a further threat were she to be deprived of the security of St. Andrews hospital. I doubt we will ever see Sheila's full medical notes until Dr. Ferguson's death, but what is available in this regard has always seemed to me to be sincere, though of course with mother and daughter having consulted the same physician it does give that individual an inordinate power as to their diagnosis.

The way things are going ( at a snail's pace ) it would seem that we'll have to wait for most of those involved to fall off their perches before notes can be released,though I don't see why. Some professionals are a law unto themselves when mistakes are made and they'll use all kinds of " legal " loopholes to avoid reprehension.
Although there's a better understanding of mental health today,we're still not as up to speed with some diagnoses,especially where the young are concerned and it's easy to misdiagnose in this particular field of medicine as there are those who still fall through the net.
It's vital that when a person/patient mentions suicide/killing/harming,that the patient is taken seriously and steps should be taken to keep a closer watch and also involve the family as well as outside help such as health visitors who are conversant in mental health. 

[lebaleb]

We have no way of knowing how long the cannabis resin had resided in the safe; far more likely Jeremy planted it there to raise the very suspicions to which you have alluded. If the whole wallet went missing then far more likely Jeremy took all the money therefrom, as Ann Eaton suspected he had acted similarly with his mother's handbag.

What would be the purpose of raising suspicions as to Neville smoking cannabis? What could that possibly do to have an effect on the case? If Jeremy had planted it there as some kind of evidence, then he would hardly draw attention to it.
AE says it was the whole wallet containing the cash and cards. If Jeremy had taken it, why kick up such a fuss? Why did it have such a disturbing effect on RWB?
AE was suspicious about almost everything Jeremy said and did. No surprise there.

[lookout]

My sentiments too,lebaleb.
 Everyone involved made doubly sure that the focus would be on Jeremy,and there it stayed without a second thought. " Taff " Jones should have gone into the tragedy far more than he had,then it wouldn't have created what we have now.
I don't doubt for a moment that he was wrong about his verdict of murder/suicide,but it wasn't enough in the mass killing to " wrap things up " and more or less slope off to do other things. As a " domestic " like " Taff " had said,he didn't look for a reason/reasons behind the killings.
I'd like to know the real truth behind the reason why a " top cop " left the case in charge of a sergeant  at the point when he had.
When there's a break,or you lose continuity of anything or anyone dealing with a specific matter of importance particularly in a case of murder then someone else takes over you usually find that others have different ideas,not always the right ones and confusion sets in. Continuity is vital from that same person in order for anything to go smoothly especially when they've known the case from the start. 

[Caroline]

About the cash in the wallet, 500 pounds was a massive amount in those days not an amount one would carry around for no reason. It must have been from someone or for something which Neville would probably not have made a secret of and may have mentioned to June or Jeremy.
AE states that at WHF, RWB was dispached to look for cash in Neville's clothes. When Jeremy discovered the wallet was missing RWB became visibly distressed.
I suspect that Jeremy and Neville were closer than people knew because of the cannabis that Jeremy knew was in the safe. AE's excuse was that several years earlier Roland had a drug problem, well that makes no sense as any normal person, especially a magistrate, would have flushed it down the toilet not kept it in their safe. It wouldn't surprise me if Neville and Jeremy partook of the occasional smoke together.

Then he would have remembered that.

[Caroline]

We have no way of knowing how long the cannabis resin had resided in the safe; far more likely Jeremy planted it there to raise the very suspicions to which you have alluded. If the whole wallet went missing then far more likely Jeremy took all the money therefrom, as Ann Eaton suspected he had acted similarly with his mother's handbag.

The cannabis resin was confiscated  from a relative (one of the Pargetter's).

[lebaleb]

The cannabis resin was confiscated  from a relative (one of the Pargetter's).

Confiscated? And then kept in the safe for what purpose? So that they could return it to Roland? I'm afraid that doesn't make any sense. Being in possession of cannabis was a criminal offence. He would have been obliged to turn it over to the police or dispose of it and say no more.

[Jane]

Confiscated? And then kept in the safe for what purpose? So that they could return it to Roland? I'm afraid that doesn't make any sense. Being in possession of cannabis was a criminal offence. He would have been obliged to turn it over to the police or dispose of it and say no more.

Perhaps it was a 'roundtuit'. I feel certain that even the Bambers, like the rest of us, had some.

[lookout]

I'm sure that what BW had said what Neville had allegedly told her,he would have done ( got a " roundtoit ")