Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[Steve_uk]

Why did Jeremy share Colin's hospitality with equanimity at the Lewisham flat several days after the murders, Julie in tow. Could it have been that in his warped mind he believed he had done Colin a favour by dispatching the twins so he along with Jeremy himself could start life anew?   http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1986/10/28/AS281086004/?s=jeremy+bamber&st=0&pn=1#videoPopUpDiv

[maggie]

Why did Jeremy share Colin's hospitality with equanimity at the Lewisham flat several days after the murders, Julie in tow. Could it have been that in his warped mind he believed he had done Colin a favour by dispatching the twins so he along with Jeremy himself could start life anew?   http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1986/10/28/AS281086004/?s=jeremy+bamber&st=0&pn=1#videoPopUpDiv

Steve, I agree with you that if JB is guilty this was shocking  behaviour, however I cannot accept that Julie was ' in tow'.  As far as I am aware Julie had a mind of her own and was no shrinking violet.
If JB murdered 5 members of his family it's not difficult to accept his callous attitude to Colin but it puts a big question mark over Julie's behaviour.  She claims she knew JB had carried out the murders therefore she also spent a weekend in Colin s home, no doubt commiserating with him over his appalling loss and sleeping with the murderer of his children.
I struggle to excuse such behaviour and question how she was capable of accepting Colin's behaviour with such apparent equanimity.

[lookout]

 This isn't about " rights " . It's more to do with having the strength and courage to move on which Colin has managed to do,while Jeremy has been stuck in limbo through the most ghastly misunderstanding of the legal system.
A lot of people in Colin's situation haven't been able to move on because their loss/losses have proved too much to bear so have either taken their own lives or have ended up on the drug and alcohol trail combined with mental health problems.
Take the Bulger case where Denise will never ever give up her fight for justice,and if you talk about rights,where are hers ? Her rights to see two monsters end THEIR lives in jail at the way they murdered her gorgeous little boy ?  Okay,so Denise re-married but she remains in the news against the unfairness of this justice system and it's plain to see that this poor woman will never break free from what happened.
Even the families of the two monsters were given homes out of their areas as well as new identities,the same as the murderers themselves. Rights ? Don't talk to me about rights !

[Steve_uk]

Well this thread is about rights. Would Jeremy Bamber have been put to death had the crime occurred before 1965? Have the Bulger killers due to being children at the time of the atrocity the right to a new life, where the penal system tries to rehabilitate as well as punish? What rights does convicted child killer Jeremy Bamber have now? Can he ever be rehabilitated? Does Colin's wish that he never be let out have any weight? What about Ian Huntley? Would such people be better off dead..

[Steve_uk]

The climate in the USA regarding the death penalty has changed over the past 25 years, to the point where it's supported now by only half the population, if that. If they can't bring themselves to execute Darlie Routier after the crimes she has committed then they may as well do away with it.  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37516595

[lookout]

IF there had been evidence which had proved " beyond reasonable doubt " in any murder ,particularly this one,prior to 1965,then the noose would be appropriate.Yes,mistakes were made,by the jury,who were no different in this,the Bamber case,but had we still had the death penalty,would there have been an outpouring over JB ? The answer is NO,because as far as the public were concerned those who were hanged were guilty. ( if you understand my logic )
76/79% of the public agreed with the death penalty,which is a large percentage. An eye for an eye !

Rehabilitation for KNOWN and PROVEN killers is a no no as far as I'm concerned,as they've as much chance of " turning a corner " as trying to knit fog.
Jeremy is NO child killer,much as you'd like to think and say he is.It took him all his time to kill vermin on the farm as all he was fit for was shooting cans off a brick wall,but probably felt cool holding a rifle.

Did any of the relatives including Colin stop and think things over in all of this ? NO. Strange how the first words out of Colin's mouth were " she's done it at last " ( or words to that effect ) Why do you think he'd said that ? What prompted him to say that ? It's only when he joined the furore of the relatives that he became brainwashed,which wasn't difficult seeing as he believed in the occult and robins leaving messages.
As far as everyone was concerned,what they stood to lose had become a nightmare and that was their biggest concern,the financial implications and their futures seeing JB lording it over everyone,a bit of a kid who had no blood-ties. Money was the root of all evil !!

[Romeo]

Did any of the relatives including Colin stop and think things over in all of this ? NO. Strange how the first words out of Colin's mouth were " she's done it at last " ( or words to that effect ) Why do you think he'd said that  What prompted him to say that ?  The reason Colin Caffell said what he did was because during her illness she had implied she could commit suicide...NOT KILL her parents! It's only when he joined the furore of the relatives that he be.came brainwashed,which wasn't difficult seeing as he believed in the occult and robins leaving messages. Ridiculing a person who finds comfort in any way after a tragic lose doesn't further your case at all! 
As far as everyone was concerned,what they stood to lose had become a nightmare and that was their biggest concern,the financial implications and their futures seeing JB lording it over everyone,a bit of a kid who had no blood-ties. Money was the root of all evil !! 'Bit of a kid' you make Jeremy Bamber sound like a little rascal who wouldn't hurt a fly...WRONG! He was a manipulative arrogant man who stole from his own family and was jealous of his relatives involvement in the family business. the argument with his father on the 18th July at a family/relatives meeting at Vaulty House regarding the running of Osea probably involved Sheila taking on work at Osea,( this was Sheila's birthday)  thus including her in any share in Osea that currently went to both Jeremy and Anne.   Jeremy Bamber even mentioned this in his Police statement saying Sheila had been offered work at Osea. Then when questioned about his share in Osea he says....I would get 50% Ann getting the other 50%. You fail to see anything wrong with Jeremy Bamber's behaviour, yet the psychiatrist engaged by the defence failed to provide any cause for optimism, announcing to the team that Jeremy Bamber displayed a number of classic psychopathic symptoms, chief of which was his very real belief that he had not committed the murders. Rivlin...JB's defence counsel...dismissed JB's suggestion that the blood had been planted by a relative as to far-fetched to pursue.

[lookout]

Before Neville's untimely death he'd been teaching Jeremy the business side of farming and no doubt would have warned him of the pitfalls of working with and being involved in the family,hence that if Jeremy had displayed arrogance,it would have been down to advice,etc given to him by his father in a " familiarity breeds contempt " mode.
It was evident in the Will that no love was lost between families and the last straw would have appeared to have been the measley  amount which had been left to the Boutflours. Personally I'd have taken it as an insult given the amount involved,but I certainly wouldn't have gone as far as seeing someone spend their days behind bars !

Neither Sheila nor Jeremy were streetwise like everyone else as they'd had pretty sheltered lives within the confines of WHF then onto boarding school. Neville's reason for sending Jeremy to a public school was because one day there would be ex-pupils from local schools working on the farm that he hadn't wished his son to work alongside as a labourer,so the arrogance stemmed from there.

On the contrary,it was the relatives who'd have been jealous of Jeremy and possibly the Bambers in general as their backgrounds and lives were a far cry from the relatives way of life. Neville was the typical gentleman farmer and wanted Jeremy to follow in his footsteps*.
The relatives went half-way in making sure that this never happened*.

Psychopathy has never been proved and it's so easy a description to give to anyone who allegedly commits murder. Unless an MRI scan is done or an EEG performed,nobody but nobody can say who's a psychopath and who isn't,just by guessing or studying a person.

As for Jeremy having blamed a member of the relatives for planting blood in the silencer,what else was he supposed to think or say when he was being blamed for the murders ? You'd rattle off loads of suggestions if you'd been caught up in something like this knowing that you were totally innocent of any involvement. I'd challenge anyone who wouldn't.   

[Jan]

Did any of the relatives including Colin stop and think things over in all of this ? NO. Strange how the first words out of Colin's mouth were " she's done it at last " ( or words to that effect ) Why do you think he'd said that  What prompted him to say that ?  The reason Colin Caffell said what he did was because during her illness she had implied she could commit suicide...NOT KILL her parents! It's only when he joined the furore of the relatives that he be.came brainwashed,which wasn't difficult seeing as he believed in the occult and robins leaving messages. Ridiculing a person who finds comfort in any way after a tragic lose doesn't further your case at all! 
As far as everyone was concerned,what they stood to lose had become a nightmare and that was their biggest concern,the financial implications and their futures seeing JB lording it over everyone,a bit of a kid who had no blood-ties. Money was the root of all evil !! 'Bit of a kid' you make Jeremy Bamber sound like a little rascal who wouldn't hurt a fly...WRONG! He was a manipulative arrogant man who stole from his own family and was jealous of his relatives involvement in the family business. the argument with his father on the 18th July at a family/relatives meeting at Vaulty House regarding the running of Osea probably involved Sheila taking on work at Osea,( this was Sheila's birthday)  thus including her in any share in Osea that currently went to both Jeremy and Anne.   Jeremy Bamber even mentioned this in his Police statement saying Sheila had been offered work at Osea. Then when questioned about his share in Osea he says....I would get 50% Ann getting the other 50%. You fail to see anything wrong with Jeremy Bamber's behaviour, yet the psychiatrist engaged by the defence failed to provide any cause for optimism, announcing to the team that Jeremy Bamber displayed a number of classic psychopathic symptoms, chief of which was his very real belief that he had not committed the murders. Rivlin...JB's defence counsel...dismissed JB's suggestion that the blood had been planted by a relative as to far-fetched to pursue.

You sound like you know him?

Personally I am not sure about the silencer blood evidence , but in any crime where a vital bit of evidence is removed from the crime scene and handled by other persons and then put in a cardboard tube with a bit of tape and not handled with gloves , it makes me very uncomfortable.

[Romeo]

It was evident in the Will that no love was lost between families and the last straw would have appeared to have been the measley  amount which had been left to the Boutflours. Personally I'd have taken it as an insult given the amount involved,but I certainly wouldn't have gone as far as seeing someone spend their days behind bars ! "No love lost between the families? These were family/relatives who shared the running of the Osea Property! They were also from a generation of farmers that covered a large amount of land in Essex. Jeremy Bamber knew what was written in the Wills before the murders having found them in Neville's Safe, hence NB finding a new hiding place for the safe key. I very much doubt that the Boutflour's knew the contents of the Will before the murders. Knowing the contents of the Will also gives JB a motive for murder.

Neither Sheila nor Jeremy were streetwise like everyone else as they'd had pretty sheltered lives within the confines of WHF then onto boarding school. Neville's reason for sending Jeremy to a public school was because one day there would be ex-pupils from local schools working on the farm that he hadn't wished his son to work alongside as a labourer,so the arrogance stemmed from there.   |Rubbish, JB's arrogance was evident at a much early age as told by his headmaster, his father sent him to boarding school, as any parent with the means to do so would, to give his son the best start in life. 
On the contrary,it was the relatives who'd have been jealous of Jeremy and possibly the Bambers    Neville was the typical gentleman farmer and wanted Jeremy to follow in his footsteps*.But JB didn't want to be a farmer, he wanted to be a playboy.
The relatives went half-way in making sure that this never happened*. If the relatives were jealous of the Bamber family, and that's what happens with a lot of families, they didn't commit murder to obtain wealth! I can quite understand how the family felt on finding out the only person left alive on that night was JB and his attitude! I'd have gone through that house with a fine tooth comb, then of course if finding anything incriminating it would be hard to to be believed...as Ann Eaton etc found out!  Which reminds me how did JB know how much money was in his father's wallet? 
JB was the one who loved the good life for himself, even telling EP whilst outside WHF on the night of the murders he was going to get a porsche! His only interest was in himself and what he could get from the family, he must be gutted it didn't turn out how he planned.

[Adam]

Bamber did have a sheltered life. Until he was about 7 and sent to boarding school. Most children are not sent to boarding school. So have sheltered lives within a family environment for at least another ten years.

I suspect boarding school made Bamber more independent. Resulting in him intially rejecting farm life to try other things, and doing extensive travelling.

At the time of the massacre he certainly felt independent and didn't feel he needed his parents for emotional support or advice.

[Adam]

Does the quoted £436,000p include the money Mabel Speakman would have left ? Which I assume would have gone to Bamber. The judge did say the inheritance was a lot more than £436,000p.

[Steve_uk]

Does the quoted £436,000p include the money Mabel Speakman would have left ? Which I assume would have gone to Bamber. The judge did say the inheritance was a lot more than £436,000p.

Not only that but there was the Maida Vale flat which Jeremy would have inherited outright, unlike White House Farm and Bourtree Cottage.

[lookout]

I'm not too sure about the ownership of Maida Vale for as far as I'm led to believe,the parents " maintained " the flat,which could well have been rented---------or,if it had been purchased,it would quite possibly have been mortgaged and if that had been the case Sheila hadn't been in it that long for there to have been much of a profit on the re-sale,so not the " fortune " that some would have said Jeremy would have inherited.

[Jan]

It was evident in the Will that no love was lost between families and the last straw would have appeared to have been the measley  amount which had been left to the Boutflours. Personally I'd have taken it as an insult given the amount involved,but I certainly wouldn't have gone as far as seeing someone spend their days behind bars ! "No love lost between the families? These were family/relatives who shared the running of the Osea Property! They were also from a generation of farmers that covered a large amount of land in Essex. Jeremy Bamber knew what was written in the Wills before the murders having found them in Neville's Safe, hence NB finding a new hiding place for the safe key. I very much doubt that the Boutflour's knew the contents of the Will before the murders. Knowing the contents of the Will also gives JB a motive for murder.

Neither Sheila nor Jeremy were streetwise like everyone else as they'd had pretty sheltered lives within the confines of WHF then onto boarding school. Neville's reason for sending Jeremy to a public school was because one day there would be ex-pupils from local schools working on the farm that he hadn't wished his son to work alongside as a labourer,so the arrogance stemmed from there.   |Rubbish, JB's arrogance was evident at a much early age as told by his headmaster, his father sent him to boarding school, as any parent with the means to do so would, to give his son the best start in life. 
On the contrary,it was the relatives who'd have been jealous of Jeremy and possibly the Bambers    Neville was the typical gentleman farmer and wanted Jeremy to follow in his footsteps*.But JB didn't want to be a farmer, he wanted to be a playboy.
The relatives went half-way in making sure that this never happened*. If the relatives were jealous of the Bamber family, and that's what happens with a lot of families, they didn't commit murder to obtain wealth! I can quite understand how the family felt on finding out the only person left alive on that night was JB and his attitude! I'd have gone through that house with a fine tooth comb, then of course if finding anything incriminating it would be hard to to be believed...as Ann Eaton etc found out!  Which reminds me how did JB know how much money was in his father's wallet? 
JB was the one who loved the good life for himself, even telling EP whilst outside WHF on the night of the murders he was going to get a porsche! His only interest was in himself and what he could get from the family, he must be gutted it didn't turn out how he planned.

Have you actually read the truth about the Porsche? And where have you sourced all your information ?