Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[lookout]

The boys clothes were in one bucket and her undies in the other.

There was a blouse of some sort then the black joggers ( damp ) draped over the bannister which I'm sure weren't June's. These could originally have been in the third bucket.

[lookout]

I've already posted my explanation on Sheila loading the rifle---------one or two at a time if the chamber was spring-loaded. This is why an empty box was found in the bedroom where she'd put a handful of bullets in it from the kitchen. The spring-load would have been too tough to have fully loaded it being a comparatively new rifle as well. Jeremy wouldn't have needed to have done this !!

GSR wouldn't have collected in such quantity if bullets were fed piecemeal ( two or three at a time ) not the same impact as a volley of bullets all at once. Chances are she could easily have lost count too by firing if she'd thought that all the bullets were spent.

[Caroline]

There was a blouse of some sort then the black joggers ( damp ) draped over the bannister which I'm sure weren't June's. These could originally have been in the third bucket.

The ONLY things in the buckets were the children's jogging pants in one and Sheila's knickers in the other. Nothing was damp, they were described as 'in soak'.

[lookout]

The ONLY things in the buckets were the children's jogging pants in one and Sheila's knickers in the other. Nothing was damp, they were described as 'in soak'.

It was AE who'd said there'd been 3 buckets.( wit stat ) Strange how EP didn't question the buckets especially if blood was prominent in them. Maybe they didn't see them either,like the silencer ?

[Caroline]

It was AE who'd said there'd been 3 buckets.( wit stat ) Strange how EP didn't question the buckets especially if blood was prominent in them. Maybe they didn't see them either,like the silencer ?

She didn't mention any blouse.

[Steve_uk]

From Colin's book In Search of the Rainbow's End:

The basic symptoms of Tardive Dyskinesia are loss of muscle control causing involuntary movement such as shakes, tongue-rolling and difficulty of speech amongst other things. It can afflict any of the voluntary muscles, from the eyelids to the neck, arms, legs and torso. To make things worse, the drugs which are then prescribed to counteract such disorders have equally horrendous side-effects of their own. While some symptoms can improve, or even disappear after removal from the "offending medication"-as Dr Peter Breggin described it in his book Toxic Psychiatry-most cases are permanent. There is no known treatment for this disease, yet doctors still continue to prescribe these drugs in such a way-high doses or combinations of them known as "cocktails"-that research has proved increases the risk of T.D.

Bambs had been on various combinations, in often high doses, for the best part of two years.

[lookout]

 This is why I still say that either Sheila was on the wrong medication or she was over medicated as either way she wouldn't have shown signs of improving as patients do when taking the right medication and the appropriate dose. Sheila had obviously been proved difficult to treat whilst in hospital and sadly the easiest remedy is to increase doses for a " quieter life " all round,as in some nursing homes today where the poor old inmates are given " knock-out " drugs and are left in a zombified state.

[lebaleb]

From Colin's book In Search of the Rainbow's End:

The basic symptoms of Tardive Dyskinesia are loss of muscle control causing involuntary movement such as shakes, tongue-rolling and difficulty of speech amongst other things. It can afflict any of the voluntary muscles, from the eyelids to the neck, arms, legs and torso. To make things worse, the drugs which are then prescribed to counteract such disorders have equally horrendous side-effects of their own. While some symptoms can improve, or even disappear after removal from the "offending medication"-as Dr Peter Breggin described it in his book Toxic Psychiatry-most cases are permanent. There is no known treatment for this disease, yet doctors still continue to prescribe these drugs in such a way-high doses or combinations of them known as "cocktails"-that research has proved increases the risk of T.D.

Bambs had been on various combinations, in often high doses, for the best part of two years.

And yet autopsy drug tests only found Halperidol and traces of cannabis. I guess that is a combination but not a prescribed one.

[Steve_uk]

"During the funeral service mourners were told: "Sheila found no physical security against distress but eternal security may still be hers". Unfortunately these clergymen failed to make any attempt to say or ask why she found no physical security. The congregation was then called upon to show forgiveness to her and told: "Love does not keep a family record of wrongs." I thought I could detect just a hint of compassion, but when the elderly canon said: "We pray for God's mercy for Sheila, sadly and tragically deranged.." I felt like screaming out at their self-righteousness: they couldn't even recognize the sickness within their own congregation. The only time they came anywhere near mentioning the twins was when the vicar said: "Sheila was a mother and I understand she knew her Gospel." But that was all that was said of Daniel and Nicholas;their actual names were never mentioned.

It seemed that because of her recent appointment to the post of church warden, the entire service was geared to singing the praises of June Bamber, and one might have been mistaken for thinking she had been the only one to die.

By the time we were eventually allowed into the cars and the doors were closed we all breathed a sigh of relief, but as we followed the three hearses out of the village, with the undertaker walking slowly in front, Jeremy started cracking jokes and laughing. To some extent I could accept it as an understandable release of tension but his joking became unnecessarily smutty, making all sorts of remarks about what he would like to be doing to Julie later that afternoon.

The thought of cremating Bambs had never felt right to me,but even more so as the curtains were drawn across the coffins than at any other time. I wanted to scream out: "No,stop! I don't want her burnt, I want to bury her with the twins as she is." I began to feel that once again she had been cheated-by both Church and family; cheated in death as she had been in life. I wanted her placed in the ground, together with the sons she loved, as she was, whole. But there was nothing I could say or do; the curtains closed and that was that. Her body and beautiful face were gone for ever."

[Caroline]

This is why I still say that either Sheila was on the wrong medication or she was over medicated as either way she wouldn't have shown signs of improving as patients do when taking the right medication and the appropriate dose. Sheila had obviously been proved difficult to treat whilst in hospital and sadly the easiest remedy is to increase doses for a " quieter life " all round,as in some nursing homes today where the poor old inmates are given " knock-out " drugs and are left in a zombified state.

But you're not qualified to make that assumption Lookout - it simply suits a 'Sheila has gone crazy, she's got the gun' premise. 

[lookout]

But you're not qualified to make that assumption Lookout - it simply suits a 'Sheila has gone crazy, she's got the gun' premise.

 I was an SRN in charge of handing out medication on surgical/medical wards and if I'd thought that a medication was having adverse effects on a patient I would then speak to the doctor who'd ordered that medication to have been given.
 NOBODY is forced to take something that they don't want to or that they feel is making them feel worse. The same goes for medication given to those with mental health issues. Sheila wasn't in touch with her own GP as often as she should have been to discuss her medication,hence the reason why Sheila wished the Haldol dose to be decreased--------she wasn't questioned about her own decision ? At least I haven't read so.
With ANY medication it's trial and error before taking anything that suits/agrees with the condition. Sheila didn't have any follow-up to see how she was progressing whereas when I was on the ward with patients I could see if there were any side-effects and if so would make a phone-call to suggest either a reduction ( by degrees ) or an increase,or even a different medication of which we obviously had to know about according to the illness.
I still maintain that Sheila didn't need the Haldol which obviously had adverse effects in her condition.I would have changed it because her condition was worsening and not improving.
Sheila was undergoing counselling but I don't know how many times she'd attended these sessions,which would have been vital for her to have expressed her feelings,etc as from that it would have given the staff an idea about her problem. Yes,she was paranoid-------but not schizophrenic. Paranoid about doing the right thing for her boys,paranoid about pleasing her mother,paranoid about her self-assurance,paranoid about her appearance. I don't know where the schizophrenia came in.   

[Caroline]

 I was an SRN in charge of handing out medication on surgical/medical wards and if I'd thought that a medication was having adverse effects on a patient I would then speak to the doctor who'd ordered that medication to have been given.
 NOBODY is forced to take something that they don't want to or that they feel is making them feel worse. The same goes for medication given to those with mental health issues. Sheila wasn't in touch with her own GP as often as she should have been to discuss her medication,hence the reason why Sheila wished the Haldol dose to be decreased--------she wasn't questioned about her own decision ? At least I haven't read so.
With ANY medication it's trial and error before taking anything that suits/agrees with the condition. Sheila didn't have any follow-up to see how she was progressing whereas when I was on the ward with patients I could see if there were any side-effects and if so would make a phone-call to suggest either a reduction ( by degrees ) or an increase,or even a different medication of which we obviously had to know about according to the illness.
I still maintain that Sheila didn't need the Haldol which obviously had adverse effects in her condition.I would have changed it because her condition was worsening and not improving.
Sheila was undergoing counselling but I don't know how many times she'd attended these sessions,which would have been vital for her to have expressed her feelings,etc as from that it would have given the staff an idea about her problem. Yes,she was paranoid-------but not schizophrenic. Paranoid about doing the right thing for her boys,paranoid about pleasing her mother,paranoid about her self-assurance,paranoid about her appearance. I don't know where the schizophrenia came in.

I don't care if you were an SRN or not - SRN's don't diagnose patients, they give the medication that was prescribed by a doctor. Not only that, you have never met or even seen Sheila Bamber or any of her case file, they only information you have about her is from second hand sources and with all due respect to Colin, he wasn't living with her.

[lookout]

I don't care if you were an SRN or not - SRN's don't diagnose patients, they give the medication that was prescribed by a doctor. Not only that, you have never met or even seen Sheila Bamber or any of her case file, they only information you have about her is from second hand sources and with all due respect to Colin, he wasn't living with her.

SRN's observe patients to look for any changes and report their findings. What do you think they do ? These changes are then reported to the ward sister who decides the next move.
No,I didn't know Sheila, much the same as you didn't know or meet Jeremy but it doesn't stop you from passing unfounded remarks about him ? Only what you've also read " second-hand, but I've nursed women who had depressive or psychotic illnesses whose medications changed like the weather according to their tolerance of it.

[Jane]

SRN's observe patients to look for any changes and report their findings. What do you think they do ? These changes are then reported to the ward sister who decides the next move.
No,I didn't know Sheila, much the same as you didn't know or meet Jeremy but it doesn't stop you from passing unfounded remarks about him ? Only what you've also read " second-hand, but I've nursed women who had depressive or psychotic illnesses whose medications changed like the weather according to their tolerance of it.

Sheila wasn't in hospital overnight and handed a prescription before she left. She would have been monitored whilst she was there and medicated appropriately. Certainly her circumstances changed quite rapidly after she left, and as I've said on numerous occasions, Dr Ferguson, hadn't seen her again and I'm inclined to think, that although she was partly responsible, the NHS allowed her to slip through their fingers........................but that's all an entirely different issue, NOT an indication that she killed anyone. By the way, did you see the programme on psychopaths on Tuesday?

[Steve_uk]

Sheila wasn't in hospital overnight and handed a prescription before she left. She would have been monitored whilst she was there and medicated appropriately. Certainly her circumstances changed quite rapidly after she left, and as I've said on numerous occasions, Dr Ferguson, hadn't seen her again and I'm inclined to think, that although she was partly responsible, the NHS allowed her to slip through their fingers........................but that's all an entirely different issue, NOT an indication that she killed anyone. By the way, did you see the programme on psychopaths on Tuesday?

Yes Jane, but five minutes was enough for me. The first case was that of a tough-looking young woman with a pierced tongue who had killed her male employer in a sex game,and when they said this wasn't the first time she'd killed I switched off..

I had to admit after I recovered, thinking about Jeremy he didn't fit that category of killer at all.