Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[Caroline]

Want to add that in all cases where children kill their parents (and in this case either Sheila or Jeremy killed their parents -no matter what, it was parenticide) - there is serious neglect!

That is a tabu here. It is hard to talk about what went wrong between child and parent, Adopted children. I know some have tried, but were always shot down.

We are to believe the Bambers were a perfect family - except one of their children shot them dead and we aren´t allowed to talk about the dysfunction that must have been there.

Oh I see, so it was the victims fault? 

[Caroline]

All parenticides I have heard of have been a result of neglect - or abuse.

You need to do more reading!

[David1819]

You need to do more reading!

Also it's not parenticide its familicide a very rare crime

[guest154]

Lets free the Ripper as well, I don't think he has it in him to kill anyone else?  What a stupid thing to say, let's free them on who might they kill, not what they have done.

I agree, justice. Silly comment, indeed.

Let's free Bamber because who else would he kill? Because he killed for money and has already wiped out everyone he could get inheritance from.

Ridic!!

[Steve_uk]

Want to add that in all cases where children kill their parents (and in this case either Sheila or Jeremy killed their parents -no matter what, it was parenticide) - there is serious neglect!

That is a tabu here. It is hard to talk about what went wrong between child and parent, Adopted children. I know some have tried, but were always shot down.

We are to believe the Bambers were a perfect family - except one of their children shot them dead and we aren´t allowed to talk about the dysfunction that must have been there.

I will say this: Jeremy has never claimed that either of his parents sexually abused him. I can't help thinking of the David Bain case,where the father Robin Bain was sullied by the allegations of incest between himself and his daughter. I also wonder about the criminal justice system and whether there is a balance between punishment and rehabilitation,and whether there can be any meaningful rehabilitation with a life spent behind bars. However given the enormity of the crimes and the refusal of Jeremy to acknowledge his complicity there seems to be no alternative in Britain than to keep him lounging in a prison cell playing Gameboy,though whether he is genuinely paying his debts to society is hard to say.

[Jane]

I will say this: Jeremy has never claimed that either of his parents sexually abused him. I can't help thinking of the David Bain case,where the father Robin Bain was sullied by the allegations of incest between himself and his daughter. I also wonder about the criminal justice system and whether there is a balance between punishment and rehabilitation,and whether there can be any meaningful rehabilitation with a life spent behind bars. However given the enormity of the crimes and the refusal of Jeremy to acknowledge his complicity there seems to be no alternative in Britain than to keep him lounging in a prison cell playing Gameboy,though whether he is genuinely paying his debts to society is hard to say.

But according to Jeremy, because he's innocent, I can't imagine he feels he owes society a debt.

[Steve_uk]

Glad you remember me, and it is true, I think Jeremy should be out now, no matter what, whether he killed his family or not.

If Jeremy is guitly, who might he kill now? His bio parents? Nah.


The years he served are enough to pay for the crime (which I think he did not do - impossible, in my eyes)

We do know Jeremy has been unpredictable in the past,to say the least. Are you really saying that Jeremy has earned the right to windsurf in the Atlantic and sunbathe on Porthchapel Beach,whilst Colin,his wife and daughter are picnicking a few yards away..

[Steve_uk]

But according to Jeremy, because he's innocent, I can't imagine he feels he owes society a debt.

Colin has written a book and his grieving process is contained therein. Could one ever imagine such a work emanating from Jeremy? He could never empathize with any of the victims because empathy is alien to him, which is why he had to mimic Colin's grief at the funerals. Admittedly I don't see much outpouring of grief from the Boutflours or the Eatons,which makes Colin's loss all the more heartfelt.

[David1819]

We do know Jeremy has been unpredictable in the past,to say the least. Are you really saying that Jeremy has earned the right to windsurf in the Atlantic and sunbathe on Porthchapel Beach,whilst Colin,his wife and daughter are picnicking a few yards away..

In the unlikely event of Jeremy being paroled wouldend the conditions of his parole be not get in contact with relatives of victims ect etc.

[Jane]

Colin has written a book and his grieving process is contained therein. Could one ever imagine such a work emanating from Jeremy? He could never empathize with any of the victims because empathy is alien to him, which is why he had to mimic Colin's grief at the funerals. Admittedly I don't see much outpouring of grief from the Boutflours or the Eatons,which makes Colin's loss all the more heartfelt.

Steve, Colin had something that none of the others had, -perhaps it would be more fair to say he could express his emotions in a way the others couldn't-  he had art in his soul. He was able to form shapeless lumps of clay into objects of beauty, he could paint pictures just as well with words as he could with paint. I imagine -if he'd had the chance- he'd have been responsible for raising his boys into beautiful people. I've always had the feeling that those little boys were old souls. From the few word attributed to them, there appears to have been a knowingness and wisdom beyond their years. Perhaps the same is true of Colin.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, Colin had something that none of the others had, -perhaps it would be more fair to say he could express his emotions in a way the others couldn't-  he had art in his soul. He was able to form shapeless lumps of clay into objects of beauty, he could paint pictures just as well with words as he could with paint. I imagine -if he'd had the chance- he'd have been responsible for raising his boys into beautiful people. I've always had the feeling that those little boys were old souls. From the few word attributed to them, there appears to have been a knowingness and wisdom beyond their years. Perhaps the same is true of Colin.

What a beautiful post. I think Sheila could have been the perfect wife for him had she not become ill and from somewhere so badly damaged. She couldn't see too far into the future and possibly lived for the moment in the same way as Jeremy,who also enjoyed the ultimate experience in provoking his parents. He told Colin after the murders his mother never made him laugh,as if there were some justification for his actions therein.

[Jane]

What a beautiful post. I think Sheila could have been the perfect wife for him had she not become ill and from somewhere so badly damaged. She couldn't see too far into the future and possibly lived for the moment in the same way as Jeremy,who also enjoyed the ultimate experience in provoking his parents. He told Colin after the murders his mother never made him laugh,as if there were some justification for his actions therein.

Steve, how kind. THANK-YOU. I get what you mean about Sheila but souls don't get a chance to thrive in atmospheres as rigid as I imagine was the one at WHF. I think Sheila's soul had been repressed for the sake of conforming to "the norm." I think laughter would have been considered frivolous.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, how kind. THANK-YOU. I get what you mean about Sheila but souls don't get a chance to thrive in atmospheres as rigid as I imagine was the one at WHF. I think Sheila's soul had been repressed for the sake of conforming to "the norm." I think laughter would have been considered frivolous.

Alias goes much further than most in justifying the environment at White House Farm for the children's behaviours. I was struck by two paragraphs in Colin's book which touches on this,and explains why Sheila was so eager to meet her birth mother:

As adoptees, Bambs and Jeremy almost needed more physical love than children with their natural parents; having already been rejected once, they now needed extra reassurance. The trouble was, June and Nevill didn't seem to have that natural connection with parenthood essential to a healthy upbringing. There certainly didn't seem to be any of that true parental bonding which even the Bible talks about in the "Judgement of Solomon". I might also add that Bambs's childhood tantrums never went unchecked with either Granny Speakman or Aunty Pam, both of whom she felt closer to than her mother. Bambs got many of the responses she needed, and often deserved, from them.

Leading psychologist Alice Miller speaks about the need for all children to have an adult witness to the hurts and injustices of their lives. Without this support, the unbearable loneliness compels us to put a lid on our own feelings, repress all memory of the trauma and idealise those who inflicted the abuse; like all children we need to look up to and have the respect of those who care for us. Thus dissociated from the original cause, feelings of anger, helplessness and despair eventually find expression in destructive acts against others(Dr Miller cites criminal behaviour, mass murder and rape as typical) or against themselves(alcoholism,drug addiction,prostitution, psychic disorders and suicide). She then goes on to say that if mistreated children are not to become like this, it is essential that at least once in their life they come into contact with someone who knows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the environment-not the helpless child-is at fault. "In this regard," she said,"knowledge or ignorance on the part of society can be instrumental in either saving or destroying a life."

[maggie]

Alias goes much further than most in justifying the environment at White House Farm for the children's behaviours. I was struck by two paragraphs in Colin's book which touches on this,and explains why Sheila was so eager to meet her birth mother:

As adoptees, Bambs and Jeremy almost needed more physical love than children with their natural parents; having already been rejected once, they now needed extra reassurance. The trouble was, June and Nevill didn't seem to have that natural connection with parenthood essential to a healthy upbringing. There certainly didn't seem to be any of that true parental bonding which even the Bible talks about in the "Judgement of Solomon". I might also add that Bambs's childhood tantrums never went unchecked with either Granny Speakman or Aunty Pam, both of whom she felt closer to than her mother. Bambs got many of the responses she needed, and often deserved, from them.

Leading psychologist Alice Miller speaks about the need for all children to have an adult witness to the hurts and injustices of their lives. Without this support, the unbearable loneliness compels us to put a lid on our own feelings, repress all memory of the trauma and idealise those who inflicted the abuse; like all children we need to look up to and have the respect of those who care for us. Thus dissociated from the original cause, feelings of anger, helplessness and despair eventually find expression in destructive acts against others(Dr Miller cites criminal behaviour, mass murder and rape as typical) or against themselves(alcoholism,drug addiction,prostitution, psychic disorders and suicide). She then goes on to say that if mistreated children are not to become like this, it is essential that at least once in their life they come into contact with someone who knows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the environment-not the helpless child-is at fault. "In this regard," she said,"knowledge or ignorance on the part of society can be instrumental in either saving or destroying a life."

Cannot disagree with that Steve, think it says it all.

[David1819]

I will say this: Jeremy has never claimed that either of his parents sexually abused him. I can't help thinking of the David Bain case,where the father Robin Bain was sullied by the allegations of incest between himself and his daughter. I also wonder about the criminal justice system and whether there is a balance between punishment and rehabilitation,and whether there can be any meaningful rehabilitation with a life spent behind bars. However given the enormity of the crimes and the refusal of Jeremy to acknowledge his complicity there seems to be no alternative in Britain than to keep him lounging in a prison cell playing Gameboy,though whether he is genuinely paying his debts to society is hard to say.

I think the only positive thing Jeremy has done is caused major reforms in crime scene handling procedures.