Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[maggie]

No rigor in her arm but livor mortis clearly visible on her face and blood dried and cracking around her mouth. The UNTAMPERED picture tells the whole truth and shows that blood wasn't 'flowing' from any of her wounds!! A 45 degree angle shot - impossible to carry out on yourself with that rifle and have it land in the position it was founds.



What forensic evidence do you imagine they would find in a house that he frequented? He told a tale that police had no reason not to initially believe so the fact that a lot of forensic evidence went by the wayside was down to him.

The legal system here often deals with circumstantial evidence in MANY cases, not just this one. There is nothing unusual at all in a conviction which centres on circumstantial evidence and there is certainly no MOJ in this case. Jeremy just still manages to fool some of the people some of the time.

I cannot believe in a police conspiracy, why would they?  I could believe in a few at the top quietly covering up 'losing' some evidence but a full blown cover up which everyone involved in the case knows about makes no sense. I know the police protect their own but what could they have done that morning which was so horrendous? Can't think of anything.
Jeremy Bamber was no innocent, coming from the background he did he had no excuse to steal from anyone but to steal from his parents who had given him so much speaks volumes imo. It was cynical, cold and calculated.
He knows exactly how to convince and manipulate, he grew up learning how to do it, he is no simple boy out of his depth imo, the way he has survived in the prison service proves that to me.

[maggie]

No rigor in her arm but livor mortis clearly visible on her face and blood dried and cracking around her mouth. The UNTAMPERED picture tells the whole truth and shows that blood wasn't 'flowing' from any of her wounds!! A 45 degree angle shot - impossible to carry out on yourself with that rifle and have it land in the position it was founds.



What forensic evidence do you imagine they would find in a house that he frequented? He told a tale that police had no reason not to initially believe so the fact that a lot of forensic evidence went by the wayside was down to him.

The legal system here often deals with circumstantial evidence in MANY cases, not just this one. There is nothing unusual at all in a conviction which centres on circumstantial evidence and there is certainly no MOJ in this case. Jeremy just still manages to fool some of the people some of the time.

I have wondered why the blood had run from both sides of her mouth, it does look as if her head had moved from side to side but of course, the force of the blast would have caused this.

[Caroline]

I cannot believe in a police conspiracy, why would they?  I could believe in a few at the top quietly covering up 'losing' some evidence but a full blown cover up which everyone involved in the case knows about makes no sense. I know the police protect their own but what could they have done that morning which was so horrendous? Can't think of anything.
Jeremy Bamber was no innocent, coming from the background he did he had no excuse to steal from anyone but to steal from his parents who had given him so much speaks volumes imo. It was cynical, cold and calculated.
He knows exactly how to convince and manipulate, he grew up learning how to do it, he is no simple boy out of his depth imo, the way he has survived in the prison service proves that to me.

I agree, there was no reason to frame Jeremy Bamber as they already had the case cut and dried. The ONLY explanation that the supporters can come up with to explain why this could happen is to suggest 'something happened that the police needed to cover up' - yet they haven't a clue what that 'something' could be. Even if they had shot Sheila, it wouldn't have been enough because according to Jeremy, she was a threat to his family and by the same token, would have been viewed as a thread to police if she was armed. It doesn't make sense, but it's all they have.

[maggie]

I agree, there was no reason to frame Jeremy Bamber as they already had the case cut and dried. The ONLY explanation that the supporters can come up with to explain why this could happen is to suggest 'something happened that the police needed to cover up' - yet they haven't a clue what that 'something' could be. Even if they had shot Sheila, it wouldn't have been enough because according to Jeremy, she was a threat to his family and by the same token, would have been viewed as a thread to police if she was armed. It doesn't make sense, but it's all they have.

I agree, if Sheila did kill the family, the police shooting her would not have needed to be hidden, the cover up may have been they claimed self defence instead of a panicked killing but in truth it would be accepted though regrettable as they were in a very difficult position and a police  life was in danger.
It is very hard to believe someone you have championed is in fact a cold blooded killer, I haven't closed my mind to any theories and look forward to Scott Lomax's new book with interest but so far in the cold light nothing convinces me of his innocence anymore.

[Caroline]

I agree, if Sheila did kill the family, the police shooting her would not have needed to be hidden, the cover up may have been they claimed self defence instead of a panicked killing but in truth it would be accepted though regrettable as they were in a very difficult position and a police  life was in danger.
It is very hard to believe someone you have championed is in fact a cold blooded killer, I haven't closed my mind to any theories and look forward to Scott Lomax's new book with interest but so far in the cold light nothing convinces me of his innocence anymore.

I briefly felt the same but at the end of the day it's the truth that is important. I didn't know SL was writing a new book? To be honest, I'm surprised.

[maggie]

I briefly felt the same but at the end of the day it's the truth that is important. I didn't know SL was writing a new book? To be honest, I'm surprised.

I think most must feel this Caroline, we form our own loyalty whether we admit it or not, to let go is a bit difficult but if the arguments don't hold water anymore you have to go with your conscience.
Yes, it's on his site, am interested to see what he has, he says it will be written in a different style to his last. I'm interested to read it, still hope for something stimulating from someone but I guess there is nothing, it's just another tragic human tale, no different from many others.

[Caroline]

I think most must feel this Caroline, we form our own loyalty whether we admit it or not, to let go is a bit difficult but if the arguments don't hold water anymore you have to go with your conscience.
Yes, it's on his site, am interested to see what he has, he says it will be written in a different style to his last. I'm interested to read it, still hope for something stimulating from someone but I guess there is nothing, it's just another tragic human tale, no different from many others.

Yes, I will read it - wonder what he means by different format? Perhaps he's changed his mind too? 

[susan]

I think most must feel this Caroline, we form our own loyalty whether we admit it or not, to let go is a bit difficult but if the arguments don't hold water anymore you have to go with your conscience.
Yes, it's on his site, am interested to see what he has, he says it will be written in a different style to his last. I'm interested to read it, still hope for something stimulating from someone but I guess there is nothing, it's just another tragic human tale, no different from many others.

Maggie hello

at the end of the day none of us know one hundred percent who killed the family on that fateful night we all have our own theories and see things I guess as we want it to be.  I am looking forward to SL's book his last one was well written IMO

[Caroline]

http://www.sclomax.co.uk/forthcoming.html

[maggie]

Maggie hello

at the end of the day none of us know one hundred percent who killed the family on that fateful night we all have our own theories and see things I guess as we want it to be.  I am looking forward to SL's book his last one was well written IMO

I try now to see it completely objectively but I agree it's very hard not to put our own interpretation on things.
Yes, at least Lomax's book should be different, I'm all for different perspectives 

[susan]

http://www.sclomax.co.uk/forthcoming.html

Caroline thanks for the link very interesting indeed look forward to reading it.

[Jane]

I think most must feel this Caroline, we form our own loyalty whether we admit it or not, to let go is a bit difficult but if the arguments don't hold water anymore you have to go with your conscience.
Yes, it's on his site, am interested to see what he has, he says it will be written in a different style to his last. I'm interested to read it, still hope for something stimulating from someone but I guess there is nothing, it's just another tragic human tale, no different from many others.

Maggie, I think we feel uncomfortable when we first change our minds. Perhaps, even a littler guilty. Then comes anger that we ever believed to be innocent, someone capable of wiping out his whole family in cold blood. For me, of course, there's the ever present, added extra of adoption, which may(?) have caused me to have a stronger attachment to the innocent case.

[maggie]

Maggie, I think we feel uncomfortable when we first change our minds. Perhaps, even a littler guilty. Then comes anger that we ever believed to be innocent, someone capable of wiping out his whole family in cold blood. For me, of course, there's the ever present, added extra of adoption, which may(?) have caused me to have a stronger attachment to the innocent case.

I have thought this for a long time Jane but still have an open mind, always considering any rational arguments which come along, I can't say I am certain therefore I have to be a fence sitter, not a place I find particularly familiar. It's all a tragedy imo.
I have my own attachments because of my personal adoptive mother experience and can see things from both sides therefore I can feel for both sides. As I said I think it's a truly tragic human story who ever did what to whom.

[susan]

I have thought this for a long time Jane but still have an open mind, always considering any rational arguments which come along.  I don't feel angry at all, it's all a tragedy imo.
I have my own attachments because of my personal adoptive mother experience and can see things from both sides therefore I can feel for both sides. As I said I think it's a truly tragic human story who ever did what to whom.

Maggie excellent post.  When I came on the forum at first I believed so strongly Jeremy was innocent I thought this case was worst MOJ ever then as time went by I looked at things differently and thought maybe my first assumption was wrong and he was guilty.  I am still of this opinion but I am open to thoughts and theories from others on the forum because this is not an open and shut case.

[Steve_uk]

To believe in his innocence you have to go with your gut, because there isn't any proof or reason to believe otherwise - and thankfully the legal system in this country deals with evidence and not gut instinct or people that can't hide their hate of Julie or their love of Bamber and allow either of those issues to cloud their judgement and take over.


Twaddle! I do not love Jeremy Bamber or hate Julie Mugford, or vice versa. I don't know them.
No reason to believe that he may be innocent? How about: Lack of credibility of prosecution witness JM. No Rigor in Sheila's arm. No explanation of how Sheila went willingly to be shot. Grave doubt about the admissibility of the silencer after tampering. Indisputable ulterior motives of the relatives.Lack of forensic evidence connecting Jeremy to the crime.. etc.
'The legal system in this country deals with evidence and not gut instinct'. Do you really think that the jury understood all of the evidence? Or at the end of the day 10 of them didn't go with their gut instinct?. If trial and appeal Judges went by the provably accurate evidence alone there would never be any MOJ's, which is sadly not the case.
My brain and my gut's tell me something is wrong with this case.

I don't think she knew what was happening in those last few seconds:vacant,spaced out,suffering from Tardive dyskinesia she would have been led by Jeremy to her death like a lamb to the slaughter,unaware of the fate that awaited her,and maybe it was a good thing that she was unaware..