Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[Jan]

Do you think it harms people by not being able to forgive,do we not see the bitter faces from people we see in town who have been the victims of crime,of broken love affairs or cheated monetarily or does it sustain them in the cold winter nights and give them independence of mind? Either way with Colin I would not condemn him,but I just wonder whether he should have the final say,important as his opinion is speaking for himself and the victims.

I don't think the rest of the family would agree with that at all!

[Caroline]

Do you think it harms people by not being able to forgive,do we not see the bitter faces from people we see in town who have been the victims of crime,of broken love affairs or cheated monetarily or does it sustain them in the cold winter nights and give them independence of mind? Either way with Colin I would not condemn him,but I just wonder whether he should have the final say,important as his opinion is speaking for himself and the victims.

Steve, it's not just about forgiving - although that would be for Colin to decide. It's about protecting society from further crimes and as Jeremy has never acknowledged his culpability it can't be taken that he regrets what he did and would would be no threat in the future. 

[Jan]

Do you think politicians should be granted the right to extend a sentence,given that they are often acting out of political expediency,when it's those inside the prison who have day to day contact with prisoners who know them best?

I know you were answering Jane - but that's what I was trying to say before . I don't think his sentence should have been changed without due process and to not even tell him ? I don't even understand the logic behind that .

[Steve_uk]

SCRUBS PRISON,WEDNESDAY 2 FEBRUARY 1989

DEAR COLIN,

SO YOU DECIDED NOT TO REPLY TO MY LETTER,I WONDER WHY? MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE YOU CAN'T FACE THE TRUTH THAT I DID NOT KILL YOUR CHILDREN OR SHEILA OR MUM AND DAD. HOW SAD,COLIN,THAT YOU CAN'T DISTINGUISH REALITY FROM MEDIA HYPE,MISGUIDED POLICE AND MY MONEY-GRABBING RELATIVES. OUT OF EVERYONE I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT UNDERSTAND BUT INSTEAD YOU'VE MADE YOURSELF A COG IN THE MEDIA WHEEL. THE VERY SAME MEDIA THAT YOU RIDICULE IN THE RADIO TIMES. YOU CAN'T IMAGINE HOW I'VE SUFFERED SINCE SHEILA KILLED MY FAMILY-I DON'T SUPPOSE YOU CARE AND WHY SHOULD YOU,COLIN,WITH YOUR NICE LITTLE BOOK AND YOUR PRETTY LITTLE SCULPTURES POURING OUT YOUR GRIEF TO ANY FILM CREW AROUND-NICE TIMING TOO-EH,-WITH MY APPEAL UP SOON,MAYBE YOU'D LIKE TO WAVE A BANNER OUTSIDE THE COURT WITH "JEREMY'S GUILTY BUT I DON'T WANT REVENGE."

GO AND ENJOY YOUR CELEBRITY STATUS,MAYBE YOU'LL BE ON WOGAN NEXT AND CAN ADVERTISE YOUR BOOK AND SCULPTURES THAT WAY-HOW YOU CAN CHEAPEN DANIEL AND NICHOLAS AND THEIR TRAGIC DEATH I JUST DON'T KNOW. NO ONE WANTED ANYTHING OF YOU BEFORE THEN AND NOW THEY'RE GONE YOU'RE USING IT FOR YOUR OWN ENDS-PRETENDING IT'S GRIEF COUNSELLING. YOU WERE ALRIGHT,COLIN,ONCE,BUT NOW I'M SORRY TO SEE YOU'RE NOTHING BUT A LEECH LIVING OFF YOUR OWN SONS' TRAGIC DEATH. IF THEY COULD SEE YOU NOW I BET IT WOULD SICKEN THEM AS IT SICKENS ME...I HOPE YOU LOVE YOURSELF,IN FACT I BET YOU DO. WHAT I WISH IS THAT YOU NEVER GET TO HAVE CHILDREN IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE YOU'LL FUCK THEM UP TOO-IT WAS YOUR FAULT THAT SHEILA WENT MAD AND KILLED EVERYONE. YOU KNEW SHE WOULD BREAK UNDER THE STRAIN OF BRINGING UP A FAMILY ON HER OWN-YOU DIDN'T CARE FOR YOUR CHILDREN EVEN IN THE WOMB..

WITH VERY MUCH SADNESS

JEREMY

You know I'm just wondering whether Sue Ford's miscarriages started a chain of events which evolved in Jeremy's mind whereby he couldn't stand anyone to be happy around children. I think this thought might have run concurrently with the need to be rid of his restrictive parents and thus his evil scheme was hatched.

[Steve_uk]

I'm not sure how to approach this because I don't believe in " human rights " for starters. To my mind it's often used as an excuse mainly by the wrong-doers in society ( I'm actually thinking about the schoolboy thug who murdered another pupil ) the do-gooders will be out in force,background,one-parent and all that tripe.
Murder is murder and in JB's case after certain questions etc have been answered and there's no other conclusion other than he remains to be a "guilty" man then he can stay where he is until death.

In one respect the publicity that JB's getting is appropriate when so many believe that he's been let down by the system,but if the time comes that he does find freedom,people are going to know him wherever he goes and that won't be good as there'll always be someone out there waiting for him,even if he's proved innocent.  If it wasn't on the forum or publicised at all nobody would have been any the wiser if he'd been released or not because nobody would know him.
I wonder how many released murderers are walking the streets ? We don't know do we because it's never made public ? Look how many paedo's are released and God help you if you ever find out who they are ?! The law doesn't allow that because " they've got rights ".NO they jolly well haven't !!
The law is an ass !!

You know lookout I bet as we speak deliberations are taking place in those swish London press offices about whether to name the perpetrator of this latest attack at the Aberdeen school. Say what you like about the Ann Maguire stabbing but it was surely not in the public interest to reveal the name of her killer,which served no useful purpose other than to sell more copy.

[lookout]

SCRUBS PRISON,WEDNESDAY 2 FEBRUARY 1989

DEAR COLIN,

SO YOU DECIDED NOT TO REPLY TO MY LETTER,I WONDER WHY? MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE YOU CAN'T FACE THE TRUTH THAT I DID NOT KILL YOUR CHILDREN OR SHEILA OR MUM AND DAD. HOW SAD,COLIN,THAT YOU CAN'T DISTINGUISH REALITY FROM MEDIA HYPE,MISGUIDED POLICE AND MY MONEY-GRABBING RELATIVES. OUT OF EVERYONE I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT UNDERSTAND BUT INSTEAD YOU'VE MADE YOURSELF A COG IN THE MEDIA WHEEL. THE VERY SAME MEDIA THAT YOU RIDICULE IN THE RADIO TIMES. YOU CAN'T IMAGINE HOW I'VE SUFFERED SINCE SHEILA KILLED MY FAMILY-I DON'T SUPPOSE YOU CARE AND WHY SHOULD YOU,COLIN,WITH YOUR NICE LITTLE BOOK AND YOUR PRETTY LITTLE SCULPTURES POURING OUT YOUR GRIEF TO ANY FILM CREW AROUND-NICE TIMING TOO-EH,-WITH MY APPEAL UP SOON,MAYBE YOU'D LIKE TO WAVE A BANNER OUTSIDE THE COURT WITH "JEREMY'S GUILTY BUT I DON'T WANT REVENGE."

GO AND ENJOY YOUR CELEBRITY STATUS,MAYBE YOU'LL BE ON WOGAN NEXT AND CAN ADVERTISE YOUR BOOK AND SCULPTURES THAT WAY-HOW YOU CAN CHEAPEN DANIEL AND NICHOLAS AND THEIR TRAGIC DEATH I JUST DON'T KNOW. NO ONE WANTED ANYTHING OF YOU BEFORE THEN AND NOW THEY'RE GONE YOU'RE USING IT FOR YOUR OWN ENDS-PRETENDING IT'S GRIEF COUNSELLING. YOU WERE ALRIGHT,COLIN,ONCE,BUT NOW I'M SORRY TO SEE YOU'RE NOTHING BUT A LEECH LIVING OFF YOUR OWN SONS' TRAGIC DEATH. IF THEY COULD SEE YOU NOW I BET IT WOULD SICKEN THEM AS IT SICKENS ME...I HOPE YOU LOVE YOURSELF,IN FACT I BET YOU DO. WHAT I WISH IS THAT YOU NEVER GET TO HAVE CHILDREN IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE YOU'LL FUCK THEM UP TOO-IT WAS YOUR FAULT THAT SHEILA WENT MAD AND KILLED EVERYONE. YOU KNEW SHE WOULD BREAK UNDER THE STRAIN OF BRINGING UP A FAMILY ON HER OWN-YOU DIDN'T CARE FOR YOUR CHILDREN EVEN IN THE WOMB..

WITH VERY MUCH SADNESS

JEREMY

It is indeed a sad letter, made worse when nobody will believe you.  It's like banging your head against a brick wall and unless anyone's been in such a situation they haven't a clue. JB's got the bit wrong where he blamed Colin for Sheila's illness though. Shows how blinkered Jeremy was when he was living at home.

[Jane]

Do you think it harms people by not being able to forgive,do we not see the bitter faces from people we see in town who have been the victims of crime,of broken love affairs or cheated monetarily or does it sustain them in the cold winter nights and give them independence of mind? Either way with Colin I would not condemn him,but I just wonder whether he should have the final say,important as his opinion is speaking for himself and the victims.

For the most part, Steve, I believe it probably does, but there are those who hang onto grudges as if they're gold-dust, and put them to use at every opportunity. It may be easier to forgive than to forget. How CAN we be expected to forget hurts inflicted on us? More, how is it possible to forget hurts inflicted on children? Colin HAS moved on. He has a whole new life for himself complete with new family but I suspect there will always be a residual sadness in a corner of his heart -and for the most part, private- for what might have been and what was.

[lookout]

You know lookout I bet as we speak deliberations are taking place in those swish London press offices about whether to name the perpetrator of this latest attack at the Aberdeen school. Say what you like about the Ann Maguire stabbing but it was surely not in the public interest to reveal the name of her killer,which served no useful purpose other than to sell more copy.

Why not name the thug ? They should brand him too ! I'm waiting for all the feeble excuses from the PC brigade.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, it's not just about forgiving - although that would be for Colin to decide. It's about protecting society from further crimes and as Jeremy has never acknowledged his culpability it can't be taken that he regrets what he did and would would be no threat in the future.

There are alternatives such as tagging,excluding the released from certain areas(such as the Bulger killers being banned from travelling to Merseyside) or even Bastoy Prison in Norway. I won't post the video again as I'm sure most people have seen it by now.

[Jane]

You know lookout I bet as we speak deliberations are taking place in those swish London press offices about whether to name the perpetrator of this latest attack at the Aberdeen school. Say what you like about the Ann Maguire stabbing but it was surely not in the public interest to reveal the name of her killer,which served no useful purpose other than to sell more copy.

Steve, my understanding is that his name will be released after the initial hearing tomorrow afternoon.

[Steve_uk]

Why not name the thug ? They should brand him too ! I'm waiting for all the feeble excuses from the PC brigade.

Well it won't bring Bailey Gwynne back for one thing.It's too soon to know whether this was an isolated attack but there must surely be hope of rehabilitating a 16-year- old?

[Steve_uk]

Steve, my understanding is that his name will be released after the initial hearing tomorrow afternoon.

I personally thing that's a shame as I don't see how the public interest will be served by it.

[lookout]

Steve, my understanding is that his name will be released after the initial hearing tomorrow afternoon.

And why not ? Show the world the kind of feral that has been dragged up by its parent/s. We see too many of these disrespectful thugs clambering to get onto buses/trains. They're like wild animals. I usually make sure I've got my brolly.

[lookout]

Steve,I'd never make it as a teacher.

[scipio_usmc]

I'm thinking mainly of the judicial process, where Jeremy has been incarcerated for thirty years in a tiny cell measuring not more than ten feet by seven if I hazard a guess, trapped in a cage of iron, which if it were mine I think I'd prefer to end it all today, innocent or guilty. On the other hand we have Colin, the silent victim who has quietly gone about rebuilding the shards of his shattered life with dignity, has remarried and now has more children of his own. Should Colin's wish to see the killer of his sons interned for life be paramount, or has Jeremy served his time and earned the right to eat pot noodle on a Dorset beach, the waves lapping at his feet as he saunters along the sands, or dons a wetsuit to partake of a spot of windsurfing before taking a bite to eat in a nearby cafe?

The government decides his punishment not Colin.  The decision made was that he would be jailed for life because the nature of his actions and his behavior afterwards.