Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[Steve_uk]

A fully awake and standing up Nevill would have ducked and used his hands to re direct a rifle that was coming towards his face. It's a natural reaction.

With the rifle and shooter so close, there would have been a physical confrontation. There wasn't.

Supporters say Nevill was caught by surprise. After hearing upstairs gun shots ?

However if in bed not fully awake and getting up it is possible that Bamber managed two face shots. Which is what he was aiming for.

This is an important point. If you're fighting for your life adrenaline kicks in whoever your assailant happens to be.

[David1819]

That's what I said, Bamber fired the first two shots into Nevill's face at a downward trajectory. As Nevill was getting out of bed.

The next two shots into the body was as Bamber retreated slightly now Nevill was standing up. Which is not surprising as Nevill was a big man.

It don't work.

1) There is no blood on Neville's side of the bed thus he was not shot in bed.

2) Shell casings contradict anyone being shot on the left side of the room (where Neville was).

3) The blood trail was Junes.

4) Once Neville is out of bed the Killer is not at an elevated level.

Neville must have got out of bed unharmed. Now what?

[Steve_uk]

It don't work.

1) There is no blood on Neville's side of the bed thus he was not shot in bed.

2) Shell casings contradict anyone being shot on the left side of the room (where Neville was).

3) The blood trail was Junes.

4) Once Neville is out of bed the Killer is not at an elevated level.

Neville must have got out of bed unharmed. Now what?

Jeremy the Prodigal Son shot his beloved father from the top of the stairs maybe..

[David1819]

Jeremy the Prodigal Son shot his beloved father from the top of the stairs maybe..

How does Neville end up downstairs while Jeremy is upstairs?

[Steve_uk]

How does Neville end up downstairs while Jeremy is upstairs?

He pushed past him when he ran out of ammunition.

[Adam]

It don't work.

1) There is no blood on Neville's side of the bed thus he was not shot in bed.

2) Shell casings contradict anyone being shot on the left side of the room (where Neville was).

3) The blood trail was Junes.

4) Once Neville is out of bed the Killer is not at an elevated level.

Neville must have got out of bed unharmed. Now what?

There won't be any of Nevill's blood in the bedroom. He was only in there for a few seconds while being shot at. So not enough time for any blood to drip down. It was a rifle for shooting rabbits, not a shot gun.

I agree Nevill must have been getting out of bed unharmed. He was sleeping when Bamber started shooting. People usually are sleeping at that time. But he certainly got harmed soon afterwards.

I don't know why supporters are saying the shooter shooting Nevill from an elevated level in the main bedroom shows it's Sheila. It's more likely to be Bamber as he's taller & was wearing shoes.  Nevill may have ducked and croached when getting his first two face shots.

I also don't know why you still claim Sheila is the killer. You didn't address any of my 15 questions after you submitted you're third scenario of how Sheila committed the massacre. Except to finally say Nevill did not phone the police.

Anyway, please provide an independent source of where the 13 shell casings in the main bedroom were. As in all aspects of a Bamber scenario, I will submit a simple explanation.

[Adam]

This is an important point. If you're fighting for your life adrenaline kicks in whoever your assailant happens to be.

Nevill would certainly not be intimidated by Sheila.

He would be more intimated and reluctant  to engage in physical confrontation upstairs,  if caught by surprise & didn't know who the attacker was . Or if he knew the shooter was Bamber.

[Samson]

There won't be any of Nevill's blood in the bedroom. He was only in there for a few seconds while being shot at. So not enough time for any blood to drip down. It was a rifle for shooting rabbits, not a shot gun.

I agree Nevill must have been getting out of bed unharmed. He was sleeping when Bamber started shooting. People usually are sleeping at that time. But he certainly got harmed soon afterwards.

I don't know why supporters are saying the shooter shooting Nevill from an elevated level in the main bedroom shows it's Sheila. It's more likely to be Bamber as he's taller & was wearing shoes.  Nevill may have ducked and croached when getting his first two face shots.

I also don't know why you still claim Sheila is the killer. You didn't address any of my 15 questions after you submitted you're third scenario of how Sheila committed the massacre. Except to finally say Nevill did not phone the police.

Anyway, please provide an independent source of where the 13 shell casings in the main bedroom were. As in all aspects of a Bamber scenario, I will submit a simple explanation.

Curious.
I prefer this simple explanation which favours JB and condemns/should condemn Stan Jones and the evidence planting relatives to purgatory.

Sheila knows Nevill is downstairs and will come rapidly up while she is firing the volley of 5 at June.
She swings and is fully prepared, which is why she gets the facial pair so accurate, and the trajectory is descending at an angle that places Nevill exactly two stairs below her.

[Samson]

He pushed past him when he ran out of ammunition.

Absolutely impossible.
Remember he had turned 180 degrees between the first two pairs of shots, which is only possible if he was always below the shooter..

[mike tesko]

...

[lookout]

He pushed past him when he ran out of ammunition.

Wouldn't it have been " job half done " if JB had pushed his father downstairs. ?

[David1819]

You didn't address any of my 15 questions after you submitted you're third scenario of how Sheila committed the massacre.

"The Gish Gallop (also known as proof by verbosity and the Trump Tirade)"

"The Gish Gallop is the fallacious debate tactic of drowning your opponent in a flood of individually-weak arguments in order to prevent rebuttal of the whole argument collection without great effort. The Gish Gallop is a belt-fed version of the on the spot fallacy, as it's unreasonable for anyone to have a well-composed answer immediately available to every argument present in the Gallop. The Gish Gallop is named after creationist Duane Gish, who often abused it.

Gish Gallops are almost always performed with numerous other logical fallacies baked in. The myriad of component arguments constituting the Gallop may typically intersperse a few perfectly uncontroversial claims — the basic validity of which are intended to lend undue credence to the Gallop at large — with a devious hodgepodge of half-truths, outright lies, red herrings and straw men — which, if not rebutted as the fallacies they are, pile up into egregious problems for the refuter."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

[Adam]

"The Gish Gallop (also known as proof by verbosity and the Trump Tirade)"

"The Gish Gallop is the fallacious debate tactic of drowning your opponent in a flood of individually-weak arguments in order to prevent rebuttal of the whole argument collection without great effort. The Gish Gallop is a belt-fed version of the on the spot fallacy, as it's unreasonable for anyone to have a well-composed answer immediately available to every argument present in the Gallop. The Gish Gallop is named after creationist Duane Gish, who often abused it.

Gish Gallops are almost always performed with numerous other logical fallacies baked in. The myriad of component arguments constituting the Gallop may typically intersperse a few perfectly uncontroversial claims — the basic validity of which are intended to lend undue credence to the Gallop at large — with a devious hodgepodge of half-truths, outright lies, red herrings and straw men — which, if not rebutted as the fallacies they are, pile up into egregious problems for the refuter."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

You didn't answer any of my 15 questions on you're (3rd) scenario of how Sheila committed the massacre. Except to change stance and say Nevill didn't call the police.

Anyway, have you or anyone else got an independent diagram  of the cartridge locations in the main bedroom.

[Steve_uk]

Absolutely impossible.
Remember he had turned 180 degrees between the first two pairs of shots, which is only possible if he was always below the shooter..

How do you deduce this Sherlock?  Wouldn't it be better to get your Kiwi friend to explain?

[Samson]

How do you deduce this Sherlock?  Wouldn't it be better to get your Kiwi friend to explain?

Sure, I can probably persuade.
This is not the only case that concerns us, but is probably the most straightforward.
You will come to understand this, you probably already do.
He was deeply involved in Bain, and like Charlie Wilkes and other notables around the internet, starts at the crime scene for illumination.

While I think about it, antipodean males are not preoccupied with tampons, but this case has a tampon cardboard tube, half the kit, bloody knockers in a bucket, all on display, and a dead woman with the business component of the sanitary product inserted. I am sorry to have to point all that out, but it is central to getting Nevill Bamber downstairs near the phone.
I am surprised you can't all see the vital significance.
Aunty June would never allow all that, but Sheila was probably half way through all that when Nevill came down to investigate, or have a cigarette. My view is it is far more likely at 3 am that it was the former, and none of this massacre was planned.

This is far from favourable for Mugford, indeed she can join a list of very very wicked women.