Author Topic: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?  (Read 246068 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #105 on: October 30, 2015, 05:44:PM »
Burrell was cleared because the Queen herself cleared him:

"The trial of Mr Burrell, who was accused of stealing items belonging to Diana, Princess of Wales, collapsed on Friday after the Queen's disclosure of a conversation with Mr Burrell in which the former butler told her that he had taken items from Diana's home for safekeeping."

Far from him stealing items and hoping no one would notice the Queen said he admitted to her he took them and told her he did so to protect the property.  That negates the notion he intended to steal the property.

Are you suggesting she lied to protect him?
They both feathered their own nests once Diana was out of the way..http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/43993/Liar-Burrell-won-t-face-a-perjury-probe

Offline lookout

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #106 on: October 30, 2015, 05:46:PM »
Taken for " safe-keeping ".I've heard that before. ;)

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #107 on: October 30, 2015, 06:15:PM »




That's right. It's like a snub towards our system that the law got it wrong.

No, that's not people who think Bamber is guilty signed the petition at all.  You're mis-representing as usual.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #108 on: October 30, 2015, 06:31:PM »




That's right. It's like a snub towards our system that the law got it wrong.

 Not everyone who signed it thinks Jeremy is innocent - I signed it and did so so we can draw a line under it once and for all. I also made sure that I stated my position.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #109 on: October 30, 2015, 07:10:PM »
Not everyone who signed it thinks Jeremy is innocent - I signed it and did so so we can draw a line under it once and for all. I also made sure that I stated my position.






 I know it isn't just for the innocent as quite a few,including Tatchell is either not sure or says he's guilty. It's mainly to do with having some fairness in the system.
I fully understand that it can go either way,so I'm not holding my breath at this juncture.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #110 on: November 03, 2015, 10:53:PM »
Shaking a little as she talked,Julie explained that she was only allowed to tell me so much and would only be able to answer certain of my questions. As it is,much of what she could tell me is still unpublishable. She looked frightened and worn out as she told me about Jeremy's gruesome plans and how they had developed several months before the shootings. At the time,however,she hadn't taken him seriously,thinking he was just venting his frustrations over what he saw as his parents' unjustified attempts to control his life,even to the extent that his mother,he said,had threatened to cut him out of her will in favour of the twins if he didn't toe the line. One of the conditions set down by his mother was not having Julie to stay overnight in the cottage his parents had provided for him. As far as his mother was concerned,sex before marriage was "a sin in the eyes of God"-or certainly in the eyes of the local community. The Bambers had offered to set Julie up with a little flat in Colchester,where their son could visit her instead. She actaully lived in South London,where she was in teacher training. There was no doubt in Julie's mind that June's ceaseless proselytising was steadily driving Jeremy crazy. What made it worse for him,really fuelling his hatred and almost certainly putting a nail in their coffin,was the fact that June idolized the twins;in her eyes,they could do no wrong.

That was all very well,I thought,but why kill them? Did she know that?

At this point Julie's friend Liz joined in. She said that money was very important to Jeremy but when he was encouraged to resume working on the farm,the shortage of it really began to rancour,especially when,in his opinion,he put in very long hours. She added that he felt very embittered by the feeling that he was not being given the just recognition and reward for his efforts. Jeremy was paid about eighty pounds a week,an average farm manager's wage at that time-which included the cottage and car-but for the kind of lifestyle he wanted to lead,that wasn't enough. He wanted to be out every night,drinking champagne and and getting in on the London club scene;to have a flat in London,like his sister;take his friends out to dinner and go abroad,much as his father was free to. Jeremy had once said to Liz that it was very important to have money when you were young but also resented having to ask his parents whenever he needed it. With this restriction,Jeremy turned his mind to more illegal resources:mail-order marijuana-which he either grew himself or smuggled in from Amsterdam when he went there(hence the envelopes of cash mentioned earlier)cheque-book fraud(in which the girls had been involved but had since repaid the defrauded amounts in full)and breaking and entering.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 11:44:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #111 on: November 03, 2015, 11:00:PM »
When I asked Julie why she hadn't said anything to the Police when it first happened,she told me that she hadn't wanted to believe that Jeremy was the killer because she was still very much in love with him. She also said that she was frightened-not only for her own safety but because having tried to challenge him about it afterwards,he had told her that knowing so much about everything,his plans and her own involvement in his illegal activities,she was also implicated in the crime.

According to Liz,Jeremy never believed murder was a crime and thought that morality and social conscience,like religion,were only for the weak. When she told Jeremy she thought he was a psychopath,he had said to her something like,"I know,I'm sick,I have such evil thoughts,I can't help it.."

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #112 on: November 03, 2015, 11:14:PM »
When I asked Julie why she hadn't said anything to the Police when it first happened,she told me that she hadn't wanted to believe that Jeremy was the killer because she was still very much in love with him. She also said that she was frightened-not only for her own safety but because having tried to challenge him about it afterwards,he had told her that knowing so much about everything,his plans and her own involvement in his illegal activities,she was also implicated in the crime.

According to Liz,Jeremy never believed murder was a crime and thought that morality and social conscience,like religion,were only for the weak. When she told Jeremy she thought he was a psychopath,he had said to her something like,"I know,I'm sick,I have such evil thoughts,I can't help it.."


See here:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6614.0.html
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 11:16:PM by stephanie »
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #113 on: November 03, 2015, 11:33:PM »
See here:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6614.0.html
Anti-social personality disorder,psychopathy..I've just watched a programme about John List,who killed his family because they were drifting from religion,June being in some respects a hypothetical mild version of him. Jeremy was unable to read June and why should he,ultimately preferring murder to the exhausting game of second-guess which was sapping so much emotion from him. I'm not excusing him,just trying to understand.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 11:42:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline lookout

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #114 on: November 04, 2015, 11:48:AM »
Jeremy hadn't got a clue that his mother was more sick than Sheila was,and I personally won't have it any other way. Sheila wasn't sick she was driven to madness by her mother. No nice bedtime stories for Sheila as a young girl,only passages from the Bible which gave the child nightmares from an early age.So bloody cruel !!
It annoys me when someone can't "see through" another person.

Offline lookout

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #115 on: November 04, 2015, 11:53:AM »
Sheila suffered badly through psychological abuse and as a result wasn't able to face a normal healthy life. Poor woman,I feel more sorry for her than anyone else. Controlled and manipulated and in such situations the worm turns.

Offline Jane

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #116 on: November 04, 2015, 12:26:PM »
Jeremy hadn't got a clue that his mother was more sick than Sheila was,and I personally won't have it any other way. Sheila wasn't sick she was driven to madness by her mother. No nice bedtime stories for Sheila as a young girl,only passages from the Bible which gave the child nightmares from an early age.So bloody cruel !!
It annoys me when someone can't "see through" another person.


It's easy to "see through" someone when one is on the outside looking in because they can be viewed objectively and rationally.  When one is up close to/living with someone, unless one has a critical nature/is consistently critical of that person, seeing through them isn't as easy.

Offline maggie

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #117 on: November 04, 2015, 12:27:PM »
Jeremy hadn't got a clue that his mother was more sick than Sheila was,and I personally won't have it any other way. Sheila wasn't sick she was driven to madness by her mother. No nice bedtime stories for Sheila as a young girl,only passages from the Bible which gave the child nightmares from an early age.So bloody cruel !!
It annoys me when someone can't "see through" another person.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_delusion
Think the jury is out on the connection of religion and schizophrenia.

IMO if June was more ill than Sheila then she cannot be held accountable to conscious 'cruelty'.
I cannot go along with your thinking Lookout.    :-\

I believe Sheila was a schizophrenic and that she was showing early symptoms of the disease in her early teens, if June didn't recognise her illness, well no one else did either and it was brought to the fore after the birth of the twins, which is not unusual.  To be diagnosed with schizophrenia you have to present with 5 particular symptoms which sets a person apart from suffering from psychosis.

Adoption can cause depression, mental illness and psychosis because of the breaking of the bond between the baby and it's natural mother. 

Sheila was adopted at about 6 months but we know she spent some months before that at a nursery outside Bath therefore she was separated from her natural mother very soon after birth and instead of going to another primary carer she had multiple carers before she even arrived at WHF. 

We know that June became ill shortly after Sheila arrived at the farm and spent time away from Sheila, this would have reinforced her original trauma of separation from her natural mother when she was still emotionally and psychologically connected, in fact when she felt she was part of her natural mother.  However much June may have wanted to bond with Sheila on a deep level as her primary carer it was already too late and the damage would have been done.

This leaves a wound that can never be totally healed, it obviously affects some adoptees more than others, imo depending on their genetic personality.  It can affect any child not just the adopted, any child who loses their natural mother even temporarily at this vital stage in their development will suffer the same wound which can never be completely repaired.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 12:30:PM by maggie »

Offline lookout

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #118 on: November 04, 2015, 03:13:PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_delusion
Think the jury is out on the connection of religion and schizophrenia.

IMO if June was more ill than Sheila then she cannot be held accountable to conscious 'cruelty'.
I cannot go along with your thinking Lookout.    :-\

I believe Sheila was a schizophrenic and that she was showing early symptoms of the disease in her early teens, if June didn't recognise her illness, well no one else did either and it was brought to the fore after the birth of the twins, which is not unusual.  To be diagnosed with schizophrenia you have to present with 5 particular symptoms which sets a person apart from suffering from psychosis.

Adoption can cause depression, mental illness and psychosis because of the breaking of the bond between the baby and it's natural mother. 

Sheila was adopted at about 6 months but we know she spent some months before that at a nursery outside Bath therefore she was separated from her natural mother very soon after birth and instead of going to another primary carer she had multiple carers before she even arrived at WHF. 

We know that June became ill shortly after Sheila arrived at the farm and spent time away from Sheila, this would have reinforced her original trauma of separation from her natural mother when she was still emotionally and psychologically connected, in fact when she felt she was part of her natural mother.  However much June may have wanted to bond with Sheila on a deep level as her primary carer it was already too late and the damage would have been done.

This leaves a wound that can never be totally healed, it obviously affects some adoptees more than others, imo depending on their genetic personality.  It can affect any child not just the adopted, any child who loses their natural mother even temporarily at this vital stage in their development will suffer the same wound which can never be completely repaired.







I do understand what you're saying,Maggie.
I've studied how June would have felt too at not being able to conceive and the impact that would have had on her mental state. Actually being told to any woman is devastating and its effects can have an everlasting effect especially and probably more so when there's a business to consider,heirs.
We don't know how June took the tragic news but it reflected in her ability to cope and accept her problem which further came to light when Sheila was only eight months old when June had to be treated in hospital which led to her admission as an in-patient for a spell.
I wonder if June had ever wished that she'd bore/borne Sheila herself,that her inability to conceive would have come to the fore aggravating her thoughts.June may have blamed herself,or as her mother used to say " the devil at work ".
Over time and because of June's delicate state of mental health,another visit to the hospital was called for and a second ECT administered to try and improve her mind and block out all past thoughts which were taking over her mind. June was quite a sick person to have had such treatment. I used to think it was a cruel treatment,but the patients who underwent it were pretty unwell.
If anyone should have known about Sheila's moods and behaviour it should have been June having suffered depression herself.   

Offline Jane

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #119 on: November 04, 2015, 03:43:PM »






I do understand what you're saying,Maggie.
I've studied how June would have felt too at not being able to conceive and the impact that would have had on her mental state. Actually being told to any woman is devastating and its effects can have an everlasting effect especially and probably more so when there's a business to consider,heirs.
We don't know how June took the tragic news but it reflected in her ability to cope and accept her problem which further came to light when Sheila was only eight months old when June had to be treated in hospital which led to her admission as an in-patient for a spell.
I wonder if June had ever wished that she'd bore/borne Sheila herself,that her inability to conceive would have come to the fore aggravating her thoughts.June may have blamed herself,or as her mother used to say " the devil at work ".
Over time and because of June's delicate state of mental health,another visit to the hospital was called for and a second ECT administered to try and improve her mind and block out all past thoughts which were taking over her mind. June was quite a sick person to have had such treatment. I used to think it was a cruel treatment,but the patients who underwent it were pretty unwell.
If anyone should have known about Sheila's moods and behaviour it should have been June having suffered depression herself.

Lookout, I think it highly likely that -like many dreamy young girls believe that if only they could get married, life would be perfect- June had believed that a baby was the answer to her having a perfect life. That's a dangerous mind set for ANY woman, not to mention that it puts on the unborn -unCONCEIVED- child, the onus and responsibility for the mother's future happiness and well being.

So June gets her wish. I can only think that, for some reason, Sheila wasn't EXACTLY what June's previous, fantasy child had been. However young she may have been, Sheila WOULD have sensed this and would have responded accordingly. It would have been a relationship disaster for both mother and child. I feel perfectly certain that Sheila would have been entirely unaware of the reasons why she may have felt rejected by June. She would only have felt that no matter what she did -as far as her mother was concerned- it was never quite right................and that was probably on a good day. It's highly likely that June blamed Sheila's difficulty in/refusal to do what was "right" for her delicate mental health........................

..................This, however, is in NO way unique and isn't the prerogative of the adopted child/mother relationship. It's something prominent in ALL relationships in which the parent puts its' own expectations of their child before what may be in their child's best interests.