Neville's call to Jeremy. A 1% likelihood ?

[lookout]

Pity we hadn't known what time those dogs started to bark !

There was every likelihood of someone still being alive when police reached WHF and heard them both barking. After they'd stopped barking it would have become that those inside had died. I'd have made a note of the time that dogs fell silent..

[Adam]

I thought you said that Sheila when faced with a gun held by Jeremy would just agree to lie down in exactly the right position to make it look like suicide? Why ? because when someone is faced with a gun they just do as they are told?

So you have to use the same argument - As I have said before if you were faced with a 12 year old with a rifle I don't think your first instinct would be to take the gun off the child .

How do you know that Sheila was not pointing the gun at Nevilles head to make him phone Jeremy because she wanted to shoot him to?

How do you know she was not just waving the gun around and not actually shooting at that stage?

We have no idea of the sequence of what happened.

And how did his words indicate she was going to fire the gun? Only in retrospect can you say that ? For all we know "crazy" could be a word Neville used when she was having one of her episodes. You were always saying she showed no signs of violence  so she cant be guilty ( not true actually)  But if that was the case why on earth would Jeremy have any idea she could shoot the whole family ? So why would he immediately think this was a matter of life or death.

There are lots of ways Sheila could have ended up in the main bedroom. Woken and lead, carried or had gone there herself. Recently people are claiming Sheila may have slept in the main bedroom.

April and xxxxxx are also saying Sheila may have been reading the bible out loud in the main bedroom while Bamber and Neville were downstairs. .

If I had a 12 year old who was holding a weak rifle, I would tackle the person. Especially, if I did not believe they would use it. Which you suggested was Neville's stance.

Sheila waving the gun around ? Was she doing the WMCA dance ?

Sheila making Neville phone Jeremy ? Her thought processes were pretty clear for someone in a psychotic rage. Best that Neville is a bit calmer when speaking to Bamber.

Bamber seemed to indicate it was a matter of life and death to the police. Sheila was a 'nutter', 'looney', 'psychotic depressive', 'do lally' and 'should be locked up'. There were guns inside WHF which Sheila knew how to use. Bamber even drew potential hiding places for the raid team where Sheila may be. Although to be fair his other actions did not indicate he thought the matter was urgent.

[maggie]

There are lots of ways Sheila could have ended up in the main bedroom. Woken and lead, carried or had gone there herself. Recently people are claiming Sheila may have slept in the main bedroom.

April and xxxxxx are also saying Sheila may have been reading the bible out loud in the main bedroom while Bamber and Neville were downstairs. .

If I had a 12 year old who was holding a weak rifle, I would tackle the person. Especially, if I did not believe they would use it. Which you suggested was Neville's stance.

Sheila waving the gun around ? Was she doing the WMCA dance ?

Sheila making Neville phone Jeremy ? Her thought processes were pretty clear for someone in a psychotic rage. Best that Neville is a bit calmer when speaking to Bamber.

Bamber seemed to indicate it was a matter of life and death to the police. Sheila was a 'nutter', 'looney', 'psychotic depressive', 'do lally' and 'should be locked up'. There were guns inside WHF which Sheila knew how to use. He even drew potential hiding places where Sheila may be. Although to be fair his other actions did not indicate he thought the matter was urgent.

Adam, I have edited my name out because as I have told you before I 'claim' no such thing, am not sure if April/Jane agrees she every 'claimed' this but am willing to edit her too if she disagrees with you.
I agree it appears there is evidence pointing to the fact that Sheila MAY have been sleeping with June that night which would explain why she was found dead where she was but no one knows for certain.

[Adam]

Adam, I have edited my name out because as I have told you before I 'claim' no such thing, am not sure if April/Jane agrees she every 'claimed' this but am willing to edit her too if she disagrees with you.
I agree it appears there is evidence pointing to the fact that Sheila MAY have been sleeping with June that night which would explain why she was found dead where she was but no one knows for certain.

April made the suggestion. You quoted it and typed 'possible'.

[maggie]

April made the suggestion. You quoted it and typed 'possible'.

'Possible' doesn't mean 'claim'.

[Jane]

There are lots of ways Sheila could have ended up in the main bedroom. Woken and lead, carried or had gone there herself. Recently people are claiming Sheila may have slept in the main bedroom.

April and xxxxxx are also saying Sheila may have been reading the bible out loud in the main bedroom while Bamber and Neville were downstairs. .

If I had a 12 year old who was holding a weak rifle, I would tackle the person. Especially, if I did not believe they would use it. Which you suggested was Neville's stance.

Sheila waving the gun around ? Was she doing the WMCA dance ?

Sheila making Neville phone Jeremy ? Her thought processes were pretty clear for someone in a psychotic rage. Best that Neville is a bit calmer when speaking to Bamber.

Bamber seemed to indicate it was a matter of life and death to the police. Sheila was a 'nutter', 'looney', 'psychotic depressive', 'do lally' and 'should be locked up'. There were guns inside WHF which Sheila knew how to use. He even drew potential hiding places where Sheila may be. Although to be fair his other actions did not indicate he thought the matter was urgent.

I find myself wondering if you get some sort of twisted pleasure from responding to posts like a moronic xxxx. Only YOU can make the phrase "People claim................." sound like a sneer.

I did/DO think it POSSIBLE,that had Sheila found herself in a terrifying situation over which she had no control, she MAY have picked up a bible and trying to "drown" her fear, read aloud from it. In moments of abject terror people have been known to pray aloud. Unlike you, I'm not given to making sweeping claims.

I wonder what you think you mean by "a weak" rifle? Do you perhaps mean one which has had the firing mechanism removed?.............or a toy one? Whilst being no expert, I feel certain that there's a vast difference between firearms, but I'm also fairly certain that a shotgun will only wound if fired inaccurately, whilst an accurately fired "weak" rifle can kill.

As Jan said, NONE of us knows what was the sequence of events. I don't believe the phone call happened, but I DO believe that to give his story authenticity, Jeremy would have used words to describe it that Nevill MAY have used. "Crazy" was possibly the way in which he'd described Sheila in previous episodes.

[Jane]

April made the suggestion. You quoted it and typed 'possible'.

Must have missed this. The dictionary -and I- agree that "suggestion" means an idea which is put forward for consideration. This would make it a possibility. What it DOESN'T make it is a claim. There is also evidence to suggest the POSSIBILITY that Sheila was spending the night in the master bedroom.

[Jan]

There are lots of ways Sheila could have ended up in the main bedroom. Woken and lead, carried or had gone there herself. Recently people are claiming Sheila may have slept in the main bedroom.

April and xxxxxx are also saying Sheila may have been reading the bible out loud in the main bedroom while Bamber and Neville were downstairs. .

If I had a 12 year old who was holding a weak rifle, I would tackle the person. Especially, if I did not believe they would use it. Which you suggested was Neville's stance.

Sheila waving the gun around ? Was she doing the WMCA dance ?

Sheila making Neville phone Jeremy ? Her thought processes were pretty clear for someone in a psychotic rage. Best that Neville is a bit calmer when speaking to Bamber.

Bamber seemed to indicate it was a matter of life and death to the police. Sheila was a 'nutter', 'looney', 'psychotic depressive', 'do lally' and 'should be locked up'. There were guns inside WHF which Sheila knew how to use. Bamber even drew potential hiding places for the raid team where Sheila may be. Although to be fair his other actions did not indicate he thought the matter was urgent.

You just don't get it do you . No matter how you try and defend your scenarios you have about as much Idea as the rest of us ( none) as to what happened at the time of the call ( if it happened)

And I don't know whether you think the YMCA quote is funny - but it is not.

And you don't have to repeat the words that were allegedly used to describe Sheila . They are now not PC and we know about the use of them because you have posted them many many times before ( I wont insult your intelligence by putting a mathematical estimate on your postings)

And as for Sheila being in the other bedroom - yes she could have been - possibly  -at one time during the evening - that proves nothing as we were all at pains to point out . But you obviously missed that bit.

[susan]

You just don't get it do you . No matter how you try and defend your scenarios you have about as much Idea as the rest of us ( none) as to what happened at the time of the call ( if it happened)

And I don't know whether you think the YMCA quote is funny - but it is not.

And you don't have to repeat the words that were allegedly used to describe Sheila . They are now not PC and we know about the use of them because you have posted them many many times before ( I wont insult your intelligence by putting a mathematical estimate on your postings)

And as for Sheila being in the other bedroom - yes she could have been - possibly  -at one time during the evening - that proves nothing as we were all at pains to point out . But you obviously missed that bit.

Jan I have thought that Sheila may have been on the double bed with June and Ralph in Sheila's room but what puzzles me the beds in there do not look slept in although AE did say she was surprised the other bed (not Sheila's) was made up ready for sleeping in.  As you have quoted none of us know what happened we can only speculate and that includes Adam.

[Jan]

I think possibly at one stage June and Sheila could have been talking or reading the bible and perhaps Neville laid on top of the other bed not wanting to disturb them - But who knows what happened after that ? There are lots of scenarios

perhaps Sheila could not sleep and went downstairs ? Perhaps Neville heard her and went down stairs ?

who knows.

[Jane]

I think possibly at one stage June and Sheila could have been talking or reading the bible and perhaps Neville laid on top of the other bed not wanting to disturb them - But who knows what happened after that ? There are lots of scenarios

perhaps Sheila could not sleep and went downstairs ? Perhaps Neville heard her and went down stairs ?

who knows.

Jan, which room are you speaking about? Were there not two singles in Sheila's room and one large -6ft- double in the master bedroom?

[scipio_usmc]

I think possibly at one stage June and Sheila could have been talking or reading the bible and perhaps Neville laid on top of the other bed not wanting to disturb them - But who knows what happened after that ? There are lots of scenarios

perhaps Sheila could not sleep and went downstairs ? Perhaps Neville heard her and went down stairs ?

who knows.

In the middle of the night Nevill and June decided to go wake up Sheila and Nevill lied on her bed while she and June sat on the other bed (though it was being used by Sheila as a table so all her crap was on it) so they could read the Bible together?

You make up absurd things in an effort to try to pretend that Sheila was doing something with them in the middle of the night then snapped.

The evidence makes clear the killer shot both parents in the master bedroom (June in bed and Nevill was getting out of bed) till the gun was empty, the killer or Nevill ran to the kitchen with the other in pursuit where the killer beat and killed Nevill, then reloaded, killed the boys and Sheila, and set about staging the scene including but not limited to staging too many bullets in the kitchen, removing the moderator from the gun and putting it away, placing the gun across her body and staging the Bible.  Try making up something that could save Jeremy that actually comports with the evidence.

[Jan]

Jan, which room are you speaking about? Were there not two singles in Sheila's room and one large -6ft- double in the master bedroom?

I meant he laid on top of one of the singles in Sheilas room - hence the slippers.

[Jan]

In the middle of the night Nevill and June decided to go wake up Sheila and Nevill lied on her bed while she and June sat on the other bed (though it was being used by Sheila as a table so all her crap was on it) so they could read the Bible together?

You make up absurd things in an effort to try to pretend that Sheila was doing something with them in the middle of the night then snapped.

The evidence makes clear the killer shot both parents in the master bedroom (June in bed and Nevill was getting out of bed) till the gun was empty, the killer or Nevill ran to the kitchen with the other in pursuit where the killer beat and killed Nevill, then reloaded, killed the boys and Sheila, and set about staging the scene including but not limited to staging too many bullets in the kitchen, removing the moderator from the gun and putting it away, placing the gun across her body and staging the Bible.  Try making up something that could save Jeremy that actually comports with the evidence.

xxxx

That's not what I said at all .

[Caroline]

I think possibly at one stage June and Sheila could have been talking or reading the bible and perhaps Neville laid on top of the other bed not wanting to disturb them - But who knows what happened after that ? There are lots of scenarios

perhaps Sheila could not sleep and went downstairs ? Perhaps Neville heard her and went down stairs ?

who knows.

If Sheila was in the main bedroom that night, I think she would have been there to sleep - either because June was worried about her (as per the call to Pam) or she wanted to be nearer the twins. I find it hard to believe there was any 'bible reading' and if she did sleep there, it was simply for convenience.