Walked or rode bycicle to 9 Head Street from whf - Rigor Mortis puzzle...

[lookout]

How remarkable , not one of the police officers , who viewed this , was as intelligent as you !!

Tee hee Jon.

[John]

I have always maintained that the rifle was NEVER originally on her person. In fact it was on the bedroom floor between the two women roughly 18ins away from Sheila and pretty well the same distance from June !

I do agree with you and Mike on this issue but one has to understand police procedures fully to appreciate how many times the murder weapon was handled before Sheila was moved.  Several people gave statements or testified that they made safe or moved the rifle.  At one stage it is also shown leaning against the bedroom window. Given that one police officer removes the rifle while another replaces it some time later, I'm not at all surprised that it ended up in different positions. The bottom line is that only the gunman and the police first responders actually know where the rifle lay initially but had Sheila shot herself as some suggest, the rifle would not have ended up laid out neatly along her body.

[maggie]

I do agree with you and Mike on this issue but one has to understand police procedures fully to appreciate how many times the murder weapon was handled before Sheila was moved.  Several people gave statements or testified that they made safe or moved the rifle.  At one stage it is also shown leaning against the bedroom window. Given that one police officer removes the rifle while another replaces it some time later, I'm not at all surprised that it ended up in different positions. The bottom line is that only the gunman and the police first responders actually know where the rifle lay initially but had Sheila shot herself as some suggest, the rifle would not have ended up laid out neatly along her body.

I also agree, the position of the rifle is ludicrous and is certainly misleading. imo

[scipio_usmc]

I also agree, the position of the rifle is ludicrous and is certainly misleading. imo

Jeremy didn't see any suicides before.  He didn't know a weapon is most commonly next to a body or only partially on a body.   The police didn't know either because many of them fell for it.  It is in fact possible for it to fall on the body but more often the barrel will be on the body and the stock on the floor.

Alone this issue is worthless because it is possible. In combination with the other evidence it takes on greater significance because it is additional evidence of the killer staging things.  The more evidence of things being contrived the more evidence of murder.  The ultimate of course is the stupidity of killing her with the moderator then putting it away. Next is the stupidity of staging too many bullets int he kitchen revealing the ridiculous story about leaving the gun out to be false. The who story of leaving out the gun was evidence of framing that Jeremy would have been much better off with had he not said any such thing. The rifle being dumped on her is less significant than these. He really screwed up with the Bible as well but lucked out that the prosecution missed such until the appeal when it was deemed by the Court as being too late to raise it. 

   

[maggie]

Jeremy didn't see any suicides before.  He didn't know a weapon is most commonly next to a body or only partially on a body.   The police didn't know either because many of them fell for it.  It is in fact possible for it to fall on the body but more often the barrel will be on the body and the stock on the floor.

Alone this issue is worthless because it is possible. In combination with the other evidence it takes on greater significance because it is additional evidence of the killer staging things.  The more evidence of things being contrived the more evidence of murder.  The ultimate of course is the stupidity of killing her with the moderator then putting it away. Next is the stupidity of staging too many bullets int he kitchen revealing the ridiculous story about leaving the gun out to be false. The who story of leaving out the gun was evidence of framing that Jeremy would have been much better off with had he not said any such thing. The rifle being dumped on her is less significant than these. He really screwed up with the Bible as well but lucked out that the prosecution missed such until the appeal when it was deemed by the Court as being too late to raise it. 

 

I must say that I have never seen a suicide with  rifle or anything else, thank goodness but it's not hard to work out that it would be highly unlikely for the gun to land so neatly.  I cannot believe JB did not work that out for himself.  He had the rifle it wouldn't have taken him long to lie down and drop the rifle to see where it landed would it?  Surely he has some intelligence.  ??  Of course it proves nothing but it is unconvincing imo.

[Jane]

I must say that I have never seen a suicide with  rifle or anything else, thank goodness but it's not hard to work out that it would be highly unlikely for the gun to land so neatly.  I cannot believe JB did not work that out for himself.  He had the rifle it wouldn't have taken him long to lie down and drop the rifle to see where it landed would it?  Surely he has some intelligence.  ??  Of course it proves nothing but it is unconvincing imo.

Perhaps he put it there as a suggestion, Maggie

[maggie]

Perhaps he put it there as a suggestion, Maggie

Goodness knows Jane, it just seems so sloppy and badly thought out yet again to carry out such a crime supposedly planned over a year and to make so many faux pas makes me question but what do I know maybe the rifle was moved for acceptable reasons and that's where it ended up being placed before the photos.....

[susan]

Goodness knows Jane, it just seems so sloppy and badly thought out yet again to carry out such a crime supposedly planned over a year and to make so many faux pas makes me question but what do I know maybe the rifle was moved for acceptable reasons and that's where it ended up being placed before the photos.....

Maggie I cannot see how Sheila or Jeremy would/could have placed the rifle in such a neat position

[Jane]

Goodness knows Jane, it just seems so sloppy and badly thought out yet again to carry out such a crime supposedly planned over a year and to make so many faux pas makes me question but what do I know maybe the rifle was moved for acceptable reasons and that's where it ended up being placed before the photos.....

Maggie, I think we here have done much more thinking FOR Jeremy -because we have the luxury of hindsight- than he would have done for himself, primarily because he would have believed he'd done all the thinking that was necessary.

[maggie]

Maggie, I think we here have done much more thinking FOR Jeremy -because we have the luxury of hindsight- than he would have done for himself, primarily because he would have believed he'd done all the thinking that was necessary.

I accept what you are saying but if he thought he had done enough, he hadn't which I find curious.   I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but f you are trying to convince people about a suicide and have planned it over months surely you would consider where the gun would fall.  I suppose we have to accept that he maybe simply didn't think.

[Jane]

I accept what you are saying but if he thought he had done enough, he hadn't which I find curious.   I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but f you are trying to convince people about a suicide and have planned it over months surely you would consider where the gun would fall.  I suppose we have to accept that he maybe simply didn't think.

But you're looking at it through Maggie's eyes with Maggie's experiences. We can't apply US to what was going on in Jeremy's mind.

[scipio_usmc]

Goodness knows Jane, it just seems so sloppy and badly thought out yet again to carry out such a crime supposedly planned over a year and to make so many faux pas makes me question but what do I know maybe the rifle was moved for acceptable reasons and that's where it ended up being placed before the photos.....

Criminals are often sloppy that is how they get caught.  They think things should be one way but their beliefs are wrong and this helps catch them.

If you think it is was such an obvious problem then you should be pretty scared to know the police there missed it.  It doesn't make them look very good that they fell for it.

The truth is that if you shoot yourself with a rifle while lying down the rifle could land on you. Shooting yourself while lying down is unusual of course.  Still the police bought that she did such because of all the other claims.
 

 

[scipio_usmc]

Maggie I cannot see how Sheila or Jeremy would/could have placed the rifle in such a neat position

I can see Jeremy doing so in order to suggest she shot herself while lying down in the position she was found in.

[maggie]

But you're looking at it through Maggie's eyes with Maggie's experiences. We can't apply US to what was going on in Jeremy's mind.

I know April, that's why I said I suppose we just have to accept that he didn't think ie. thought it was well staged.  It is quite hard to put our own attitudes aside and just accept that is what he did but probably easier if convinced of his guilt, however as  am not 100% guilty it is hard to do that.  There is a strong possibility the police did move it whether he is guilty or innocent, don't you think?

[Jane]

I know April, that's why I said I suppose we just have to accept that he didn't think ie. thought it was well staged.  It is quite hard to put our own attitudes aside and just accept that is what he did but probably easier if convinced of his guilt, however as  am not 100% guilty it is hard to do that.  There is a strong possibility the police did move it whether he is guilty or innocent, don't you think?

There's no way I'd rule it out. I can't tell you how many times I've moved/taken something apart and ended up with no idea of where it originally was!!!!!!!!!!!!