Walked or rode bycicle to 9 Head Street from whf - Rigor Mortis puzzle...

[Jane]

And if what you say is true, then of course the first photographs taken of Sheila Caffell on the bedroom floor cannot have been in the exact same position that her body and the gun was originally found in, and so the photographs presented to the jury, on the basis that they represented Sheila's body untouched and unmoved, had in fact, been stage managed beforehand, a fact not given to the jury...

A very serious matter, if true...

According to what I've read, it was admitted that her right hand/arm was moved to show the blood stain beneath it.

[John]

A car takes longer to get there than a bicycle as it has to go the long way round via Tolleshunt D'Arcy.

[Jane]

A car takes longer to get there than a bicycle as it has to go the long way round via Tolleshunt D'Arcy.

I've spent ages trying to work out your map. It's just occurred to me that it shows leaving Goldhanger by the back road. Duuuh!!!!

[mike tesko]

On a bicycle it only takes 11-15 minutes to get to White House Farm from 9 Head Street in Goldhanger.



Farmhouse just a few hundred metres east of red pointer.

If you were the killer, and you were riding away from the scene on a push bike, would you travel on the main road to get from point A to Point B? No, of course you wouldn't. Would you have lights front and rear of the bike as you rode along? No, of course you wouldn't...

DI Wilkinsons evidence was part of the prosecutions file that they built up to use against Jeremy, and therefore it has to have a direct bearing upon the claim that if Jeremy was the killer, how he got from one place to the other - 1 hour and 3 minutes by bycicle, 2 hours and 25 minutes walking...

[Jane]

If you were the killer, and you were riding away from the scene on a push bike, would you travel on the main road to get from point A to Point B? No, of course you wouldn't. Would you have lights front and rear of the bike as you rode along? No, of course you wouldn't...

DI Wilkinsons evidence was part of the prosecutions file that they built up to use against Jeremy, and therefore it has to have a direct bearing upon the claim that if Jeremy was the killer, how he got from one place to the other - 1 hour and 3 minutes by bycicle, 2 hours and 25 minutes walking...

The fact that someone makes a mistake over how a killer left the scene of a crime doesn't alter that the killer has killed..................whoever is the killer/victims.

[scipio_usmc]

First of all 10 minutes plus 12 minutes = 22 minutes.  So by bike the killer could leave and get home in 22 minutes.

You left out that Jeremy could have decided to use a car which would be considerably faster. 

Jeremy spent some time staging the scene before he went home, but how much time we don't know.

If he used the car he left WHF by 2:50 most likely.

If he used a bike he left WHF by 2:35 most likely.

If he spent 15 minutes staging things and went by bike it means the killings were between 2 and 2:20

If he used a car then the murders were between 2 and 2:35

The difference is insignificant.

He could have arrived there as early as 1:45 and then started things off.  It is highly doubtful anything happened prior to 1:45AM and more likely the killing happened between 2 and 2:30. There is a chance the killings took place a little after 2:30 but certainly one would expect them to have occurred by 2:45.

At 3:15 Sheila was found to be in full rigor which takes 9-12 hours.  So at minimum she died between  3:15 and 6:15.  Notice at minimum. We don't know when she reached full rigor only that she had already reached it. So simply based on rigor she could have died anytime between Pam spoke to her and 6:15.
Her stomach contents suggest she died 2-6 hours of her last meal. We know she was still eating at 9:30 and done by 10 because she supposedly went to sleep.  All this suggests is she died between 12 and 4am. That offers little help because it simply means she died by 4am. 

Unless one believes Jeremy hung out for hours looking at the victims the realistic time frame he began to  commit the murders is no earlier than 1:45 and no later than 2:45 though the more likely window is between 2 and 2:30.

The more time he wasted in getting home and contacting police the easier it would be to tell that the victims were dead before the time he claims to have received a phone call from Nevill.  So he couldn't waste too much time.   


   

[mike tesko]

The fact that someone makes a mistake over how a killer left the scene of a crime doesn't alter that the killer has killed..................whoever is the killer/victims.

There was no rigor mortis in Sheila's extremities when PC David Bird started to take his first photographs of Sheila's body in the main bedroom, that and no mention by anyone of any accompanying body stench relating to Sheila's body, tells its own story. Her skin colour is much too pale in these images to support a claim that she had already been dead since any time prior to 7.37am, or sooner. The colour and complexion of her skin would sure have been more purplish than that shown. The body and the rifle has clearly been stage managed by the police at this stage, prior to this stage, and after this stage. You only have to work out the number of times police officers say they removed the rifle from her body to realize that police staged her body and misued photographes taken during or after the body and the gun had been tampered with, producing such photographs as evidence of how the body and the gun had been found untouched, unmoved, but the game is up...

[John]

Regardless of Wilkinson's journeys which no doubt took the longest possible way round, you can walk and cycle to the farm by using the farm lanes which render the journeys much quicker.

10 to 15 mins each way by bicycle in the dark with no lights, silent and able to avoid any traffic by darting into the nearest hedgerow or field entrance.  No wonder Robert Boutflour got on his bike.

[John]

There was no rigor mortis in Sheila's extremities when PC David Bird started to take his first photographs of Sheila's body in the main bedroom, that and no mention by anyone of any accompanying body stench relating to Sheila's body, tells its own story.

One couldn't possibly see rigor mortis from those photos and a newly deceased persons doesn't smell.

[mike tesko]

Regardless of Wilkinson's journeys which no doubt took the longest possible way round, you can walk and cycle to the farm by using the farm lanes which render the journeys much quicker.

10 to 15 mins each way by bicycle in the dark with no lights, silent and able to avoid any traffic by darting into the nearest hedgerow or field entrance.  No wonder Robert Boutflour got on his bike.

There is no evidence at all that the bycicle was used, by anybody that night, it was all speculation, introduced by Mugford, picked up by old man Boutflour through his police contacts, and although scientifically examined, no evidence linking the shootings or Jeremy to it. There is no evidence even to show that the bycicle was even at the farmhouse on the day before the shootings, its just a red herring...

[John]

If you were the killer, and you were riding away from the scene on a push bike, would you travel on the main road to get from point A to Point B? No, of course you wouldn't. Would you have lights front and rear of the bike as you rode along? No, of course you wouldn't...

DI Wilkinsons evidence was part of the prosecutions file that they built up to use against Jeremy, and therefore it has to have a direct bearing upon the claim that if Jeremy was the killer, how he got from one place to the other - 1 hour and 3 minutes by bicycle, 2 hours and 25 minutes walking...

It took less than 15 mins on his maws pusbike...end off!

[John]

There is no evidence at all that the bycicle was used, by anybody that night, it was all speculation, introduced by Mugford, picked up by old man Boutflour through his police contacts, and although scientifically examined, no evidence linking the shootings or Jeremy to it. There is no evidence even to show that the bycicle was even at the farmhouse on the day before the shootings, its just a red herring...

The caked mud on the sides of the tyres says it all.

[maggie]

Regardless of Wilkinson's journeys which no doubt took the longest possible way round, you can walk and cycle to the farm by using the farm lanes which render the journeys much quicker.

10 to 15 mins each way by bicycle in the dark with no lights, silent and able to avoid any traffic by darting into the nearest hedgerow or field entrance.  No wonder Robert Boutflour got on his bike.

Pitch black country roads with no lights on a bike, darting into hedges which may be full of brambles, barbed wire, ditches...  anything, you could kill yourself that way as well..

[mike tesko]

One couldn't possibly see rigor mortis from those photos and a newly deceased persons doesn't smell.

Yes, but someone who has already supposedly been dead 8 or 9 hours does...

[mike tesko]

It took less than 15 mins on his maws pusbike...end off!

He isn't the killer, so he never rode his mothers bycicle anywhere in the middle of the night...