Innocent Jeremy or Incompetent doctors? Medical Document from 2010 appeal.

[guest154]

Absolutely agree. And it also gives the impression that the defence will use whatever means, fair or foul, to create evidence, which in the case of this photo, never existed in the first place. Over the years, it is discussed and enters into accepted 'evidence' that Sheila died much later. The reality is the real picture in the albums which Bamber has and knows that the picture doesn't show what it is claimed.

Accepted by ignorant people or biased people who want to believe such but not by informed people who are objective and thus not by the courts which is what actually matters. Many suffer the delusion that if they stir up public opinion that will make courts act.

It shows complete dishonesty doesn't it? The person taking a copy of the photo, using flash - then looks at the photo they have just take and realises that the flash has created a glossy look to the picture, creating the false look of wet blood. This then takes on a life of its own.

It shows that SOME supporters are out to be RIGHT no matter what - strange motives indeed.

so wheres the orignal.

I believe Caroline posted it a few days ago, but it has been posted here many, many times.

[Caroline]

Absolutely agree. And it also gives the impression that the defence will use whatever means, fair or foul, to create evidence, which in the case of this photo, never existed in the first place. Over the years, it is discussed and enters into accepted 'evidence' that Sheila died much later. The reality is the real picture in the albums which Bamber has and knows that the picture doesn't show what it is claimed.

There is a picture on the forum which shows clearly what Sheila looked like when she was discovered but people here refuse to accept what they are seeing and someone even suggested it was taken during a second batch of photos, taken much later. It's find to believe he's innocent, but it's dishonest to reject what is clearly fact and obvious fiction.

This picture shows the blood was dried and that she was in stages of LM - I don't see how anyone can argue with this!

[Jane]

There is a picture of the forum which shows clearly what Sheila looked like when she was discovered but people here refuse to accept what they are seeing and someone even suggested it was taken during a second batch of photos, taken much later. It's find to believe he's innocent, but it's dishonest to reject what is clearly fact and obvious fiction.

This picture shows the blood was dried and that she was in stages of LM - I don't see how anyone can argue with this!

That looks like every wound/cut/graze I had as a child, then picked at the blood when it dried and turned to brown powder.

[maggie]

There is a picture on the forum which shows clearly what Sheila looked like when she was discovered but people here refuse to accept what they are seeing and someone even suggested it was taken during a second batch of photos, taken much later. It's find to believe he's innocent, but it's dishonest to reject what is clearly fact and obvious fiction.

This picture shows the blood was dried and that she was in stages of LM - I don't see how anyone can argue with this!

I agree the 'shine' is the flash and nothing more.  I have never believed Sheila died later.

[lookout]

If she had been dead for some time,her face,neck and extremities would/should have been bordering on a darker bluey/ purple, as we all know that when dead,circulation halts. Because her head was slightly tilted back,is where a darker colouring would be more prominent. This occurs within a couple of hours. I'd have expected a much darker skin colouring if she'd been dead for the length of time I've seen stated ( around 2am )
Even as the photograph shows,LV is present but not to the degree that she'd been dead for hours.
Some even stiffen immediately after a shooting and still have a tight grip on the gun,so RM isn't always a factor to go by to record the time of death.

[maggie]

If she had been dead for some time,her face,neck and extremities would/should have been bordering on a darker bluey/ purple, as we all know that when dead,circulation halts. Because her head was slightly tilted back,is where a darker colouring would be more prominent. This occurs within a couple of hours. I'd have expected a much darker skin colouring if she'd been dead for the length of time I've seen stated ( around 2am )
Even as the photograph shows,LV is present but not to the degree that she'd been dead for hours.
Some even stiffen immediately after a shooting and still have a tight grip on the gun,so RM isn't always a factor to go by to record the time of death.

Hi Lookout, imo there is always the quality of the photos to consider, in this case I think it's poor quality so very difficult to really be able to tell about the colouring ?

[Caroline]

If she had been dead for some time,her face,neck and extremities would/should have been bordering on a darker bluey/ purple, as we all know that when dead,circulation halts. Because her head was slightly tilted back,is where a darker colouring would be more prominent. This occurs within a couple of hours. I'd have expected a much darker skin colouring if she'd been dead for the length of time I've seen stated ( around 2am )
Even as the photograph shows,LV is present but not to the degree that she'd been dead for hours.
Some even stiffen immediately after a shooting and still have a tight grip on the gun,so RM isn't always a factor to go by to record the time of death.

Of course it shows she has been dead for hours. In order to see the full effects of L M, she would need to be turned over BUT because the head contains a lot of the bodies blood, you can see the discolouration on her face. Like I said, people can deny what this picture shows until they are blue in the face (no pun intended) but it doesn't lie! This is not the picture of someone who had JUST died.

[scipio_usmc]

I agree the 'shine' is the flash and nothing more.  I have never believed Sheila died later.

That presents a significant problem though for Jeremy.

Even Jeremy's own experts concede that her body was moved while her blood was wet and this changed the blood flow.

This is an acknowledgment someone else moved her shortly after she died.  The only way the police could have caused such would be if she died not that long before the police went in.

If police didn't do it then it means someone else was there to move her who fled the murder scene which supports her being murdered.

This is not simply a case where believing police did it helps establish Jeremy is innocent. On the flip side diehard Jeremy supporters are wed to this because they recognize if police didn't cause the blood flow changes then it means Jeremy did.

The argument is made out of necessity. The problem for the defense is that the evidence doesn't support it. To try pretending there is evidence to support it you have them seizing upon Woodcock's sloppy wording which gives the false impression he saw her actively bleeding and then the claim the photos suggest the blood was still wet. These kinds of things can fool gullible people or people who want to believe it.  But to convince a court you need Woodcock and other police to say they saw active bleeding and that her body was seated when they saw her so someone must have moved her flat. That would actually be evidence that supports their contentions.  They don't have this only suggestions her hand was moved and the gun was moved but they use such movements to try to give the impression police could have moved her flat. Since they moved her hands and the gun maybe they moved her body in more ways the argument goes but speculation of this nature has no chance in accomplishing anything in court particularly in an appeal setting. 

[lookout]

Of course it shows she has been dead for hours. In order to see the full effects of L M, she would need to be turned over BUT because the head contains a lot of the bodies blood, you can see the discolouration on her face. Like I said, people can deny what this picture shows until they are blue in the face (no pun intended) but it doesn't lie! This is not the picture of someone who had JUST died.

 




Sorry to disagree but if Sheila had been deceased for " hours ",her overall colour would have been peuce, a definite bluey/purple. The pic shows pallor,albeit a poor reproduction which you can't honestly state if it's the grainey quality or if discolouration is beginning to appear on the side of her jawbone. The whole of her face would have disdplayed that " mottled " effect had she been dead a while,and it clearly isn't a true picture of someone who'd been dead for at least 7 hours. 

[Caroline]

Sorry to disagree but if Sheila had been deceased for " hours ",her overall colour would have been peuce, a definite bluey/purple. The pic shows pallor,albeit a poor reproduction which you can't honestly state if it's the grainey quality or if discolouration is beginning to appear on the side of her jawbone. The whole of her face would have disdplayed that " mottled " effect had she been dead a while,and it clearly isn't a true picture of someone who'd been dead for at least 7 hours.

That's not true lookout, the bluely colour comes from blood, in death (because of gravity) the blood seeps to the lowest part of the body (in Sheila's case it would be the dorsal area). You should know that better than anyone!

[lookout]

That's not true lookout, the bluely colour comes from blood, in death (because of gravity) the blood seeps to the lowest part of the body (in Sheila's case it would be the dorsal area). You should know that better than anyone!

It is true as LM begins quite soon after death as soon as circulation has stopped,also it varies with each individual as RM does ( which can be instant in some,usually the thinner a person is ) you can't estimate things like that as every person is different along with the circumstances of death. Sheila could have died clutching that rifle for all we know,that's why I think the pic is phony if she'd been the shooter. As it is,the rifle looks " placed " which is wrong as she DIDN'T shoot herself--------she couldn't,and NEITHER was it Jeremy.

[Caroline]

It is true as LM begins quite soon after death as soon as circulation has stopped,also it varies with each individual as RM does ( which can be instant in some,usually the thinner a person is ) you can't estimate things like that as every person is different along with the circumstances of death. Sheila could have died clutching that rifle for all we know,that's why I think the pic is phony if she'd been the shooter. As it is,the rifle looks " placed " which is wrong as she DIDN'T shoot herself--------she couldn't,and NEITHER was it Jeremy.

So who do you think it was? PM me if you don't want to post it on the forum.

[John]

Sorry to disagree but if Sheila had been deceased for " hours ",her overall colour would have been peuce, a definite bluey/purple. The pic shows pallor,albeit a poor reproduction which you can't honestly state if it's the grainey quality or if discolouration is beginning to appear on the side of her jawbone. The whole of her face would have disdplayed that " mottled " effect had she been dead a while,and it clearly isn't a true picture of someone who'd been dead for at least 7 hours.

Nobody knows when Sheila died, she could very well have been alive when the first police arrived on the scene but now we will never know.  Jeremy made dam sure nobody went into the house too soon though just in case.

[scipio_usmc]

Nobody knows when Sheila died, she could very well have been alive when the first police arrived on the scene but now we will never know.  Jeremy made dam sure nobody went into the house too soon though just in case.

Sheila didn't survive for many hours, she died immediately from the second shot.

[nugnug]

Below is a Document by Pathologists Dr Marco Meloni and Dr. Andrea Cavalli put together as part of Bambers 2010 appeal.

I obtained an image copy of this document, It was in Italian. I converted the photo into a word document then put it through google translate it seems to have translated everything fine.


If anyone is interested in the Italian copy just let me know

do the doctors stand by there cliams.