The Murders at White House Farm - By Carol Ann Lee (A Taster!)

[guest154]

Mr Boutflour, a farmer from Wix, added: “Anybody who gives him a new appeal - well I would seriously question their sanity.

“I find all this quite extraordinary, people forget the gravity of the crime and talk about it as if he went and had a cup of tea or punched somebody in the face.

“Two innocent children were shot in their beds. Wake up, this guy is a bloody murderer.


“He killed five people and why is anybody giving him any credibility?

“It is messing about with stupid technicalities and an appeal would be a waste of public time and money.”

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Caroline - Boutflour talks JUST like you and I do... I think soon we will be accused of being Boutflour and AE. 

He speaks a lot of sense though.

BW said it sounded as though there had been an argument because of Nevill's off-hand manner, perhaps Jeremy returning without the trailer was the cause of it?

Yeah. Or Jeremy thought "sod it!" and left without bothering to bring the trailor back because of whatever argument had happened, perfect storm brewing for him.

[Caroline]

Wouldn't make sense to do it on the night of the murders, would it & as you say people saw it there earlier. I guess I will have to read the full thing to see why she is saying that - but it would be worrying for the rest of the book if a mistake like this has been on something so well known.

I wouldn't have thought so because it leaves too many things to do. Washing and changing clothes, returning the silencer to the cupboard, staging the scene etc.  However, if he really did decide 'tonights the night' - perhaps he did do everything as he went along?

[Caroline]

Mr Boutflour, a farmer from Wix, added: “Anybody who gives him a new appeal - well I would seriously question their sanity.

“I find all this quite extraordinary, people forget the gravity of the crime and talk about it as if he went and had a cup of tea or punched somebody in the face.

“Two innocent children were shot in their beds. Wake up, this guy is a bloody murderer.


“He killed five people and why is anybody giving him any credibility?

“It is messing about with stupid technicalities and an appeal would be a waste of public time and money.”

---------------------------------------

Caroline - Boutflour talks JUST like you and I do... I think soon we will be accused of being Boutflour and AE. 

He speaks a lot of sense though.


Yeah. Or Jeremy thought "sod it!" and left without bothering to bring the trailor back because of whatever argument had happened, perfect storm brewing for him.

Ha, ha!! Don't give people idea's - it doesn't take much!! 

[guest2181]

"from Goldhanger to Tolleshunt D’Arcy took no more than 15 minutes. An approach from the front of the house was too risky; it was safer for Jeremy to dismount in the back garden, leaving the bicycle there before pulling on gloves and some sort of mask"


Well that would explain why the dog was barking I suppose. Perhaps it was a batman mask.

There isn't a back garden. 

[guest2181]

I couldn't give a toss what people think of my posts.

I'd like to have seen your posts had he been pro-Bamber.

He was wasn't he?

[guest154]

He was wasn't he?

When he joined he was, or that was the impression I got. He received a lot of encouragement here. Jackie offered to help him promote is book and you can bet your life she wouldn't do that if he was a guilter.

[guest2181]

When he joined he was, or that was the impression I got. He received a lot of encouragement here. Jackie offered to help him promote is book and you can bet your life she wouldn't do that if he was a guilter.

We'll I don't know the chap. Personally I don't buy in to all these claims of revelation.

He says he proves the case against JB, whereas the reality is he's just repeating much of what has been said already on this forum. Throwing in an alleged sensational letter for good measure, which is somewhat convenient.

His quarrels with NGB and JP also leave a lot to be desired and detracts from his professionalism.

I'm not impressed by it all.

[scipio_usmc]

Given the amount of guns and ammunition in the farmhouse I'm surprised that Neville didn't arm himself------------very surprised. How quick,seconds in fact it would have taken to shoot at the legs of the perpetrator to put them out of action ? He was this big,strong farmer ? I really don't understand.

How many times have I posed to you that Nevill could have been going to try to get a gun from the back office but was attacked before he could get there?

I posted the universe of possibilities:

1) the killer was running to the kitchen to get bullets to reload but Nevill caught up and tried to disarm the killer before the killer could reload

2) Nevill was running to the kitchen to:

A) try to get a gun but the killer caught up and they fought before Nevill got the chance
B) to try to use the phone but the killer caught up and they fought before Nevill got the chance to try
C) to try to get out the back door to go run for help
 
--------
How many times have I posted that if Sheila had been running around with the gun and Nevill was too scared to try to disarm her with his bare hands but she left him alone in the kitchen then he would have been apt to go get a shotgun from the closet as opposed to calling Jeremy.

Are you finally waking up after all this time or am I dreaming?  Someone pinch me.

[scipio_usmc]

He prob thought one loaded magazine would do it?

He thought 1 loaded magazine would be sufficient for the parents.  He likely expected the need to reload to take care of the other victims but that is the whole reason you use a moderator and kill them in bed.  The expectation is to be able to silently kill them in batches. His poor targeting of Nevill screwed things up resulting in the struggle.  There is nothing to suggest anyone else woke up at an inopportune time so he was able to complete his task successfully.

[scipio_usmc]

I can't believe this. He had been planning the massacre and knew a bit about guns.

Ideally he would be hoping to kill everyone with the 10/11 bullets. As suspicious people may ask if Sheila could chamber and re load.

Maybe one shot head each into Sheila and the twins, the rest into Neville and June.  However Neville got downstairs after only two upstairs head shots.

After Neville's beating, more head shots were needed. Meaning a re load was needed as he had already fired bullets into June and two bullets into Neville's torso.   Sheila, Nicolas and Daniel had still to be shot.

Once he had chambered and re loaded once, the damage was done. He might as well chamber and re load twice and fire lots more bullets into people to make it look 'crazy'.

The more shots fired the more reloading that needs to have taken place which increases the opportunity for some of the victims to escape and decreases the likelihood the killer was Sheila.  There is a substantial difference between having extra magazines already loaded to draw upon and having to keep reloading a single magazine.   

[scipio_usmc]

There wasn't a gun under the bed, that is a myth.

The gun cupboard. Okay.

As the office stair door was locked, he would have to go through the kitchen to get to the gun cupboard.

Where was he murdered again?

He didn't have access to a firearm.

Indeed he could have been trying to get to the gun closet after escaping from the bedroom but was jumped by the killer before he could reach it the office. 

If he had been left in the kitchen alone to use the phone then instead of calling Jeremy he could have gone to the office and got a gun.  That is what someone to panicked to try to disarm a gunman with their bare hands would do- go arm themselves as opposed to call their son and hope their son could get to them before the gunman did anything.  So this is a problem for why Jeremy would be called. Of course there are others like Sheila never touched the gun so why would Nevill call and claim such...

[scipio_usmc]

Which is possibly where he was heading  via the kitchen?

Assuming he was running to the kitchen and being chased by the killer then there are only 3 possibilities:

1) trying to get to the guns

2) trying to get to the phone

3) trying to get out the door to go try to summon help

There is of course the 4th possibility that he was chasing the killer to prevent the killer from reloading and caught up in the kitchen. Presumably the killer could have caught Nevill before he even got into the kitchen since he was bouncing against walls and having some difficulty moving fast.  But we will never know for sure which of these 4 is the case unless Jeremy felt like speaking. Someone posing this to Jeremy with the generic word killer or Sheila in place of the word killer to see what he thought of it could be interesting.

[scipio_usmc]

Really ? so if they expanded slowly upon impact this would help explain Neville and June not dying straight away. And Jeremy's panic re load.

The location of their wounds explain why they did not die right away. To kill instantly with a 22LR you need to hit a key location and he failed to do so. The same holds true with other calibers of bullets though location matters as to whether a wound will be fatal or not and how soon.

[scipio_usmc]

This bit is wrong

"Sash windows do not open silently either, but Bamber managed to get into the house without alerting either the labrador in the garage or his mother’s dog indoors. After gaining entry, he took the kitchen phone off the hook, disabling all the farmhouse telephones, including the one on Nevill’s bedside table"

The phone wasn't in the bedroom on the night of the murders.

I did note that Len Foakes said he 'saw' Neville bringing the trailer back full of rapeseed - so that settles that.

Hey Harters, how noisy were the windows when you push them up.

[susan]

He was wasn't he?

Hartley

PH gave me the impression he thought Jeremy a MOJ at the time I thought Jeremy was innocent and I promoted his book as you may all remember like somebody crazy for which he thanked me personal correspondence I had with him was a totally different story from what is written in Deviant