Police log contents, and position of bodies in photographs don't add up, CRIKEY.

[Jane]

West didn't say how long it took the operator to get back to him.  He simply noted 3:42 is the time the BT operator got back to him and told him the the line was indeed busy. The call ended before 3:42 because it was prior to 3:42 that West called the phone company though we don't know how many minutes before 3:42 he called the phone company.

You and Mike are stupidly suggesting that Jeremy phoned at 3:36 and was off the phone by 3:41 which means at most he was on the phone with police for 5 minutes including the time he was put on hold.  This timetable is entirely made up.  It would have taken several minutes just for West to record all the information he recorded, then he placed Jeremy on hold for several minutes as he called Bonnett and told Bonnett everything Jeremy told him AND then they spent more time dispatching police and finally got back on the phone with Jeremy and spoke to him for another minute at least. You timetable totally falls apart no way could he have called at 3:36 and been off the phone by 3:41. 

Jeremy denies this in the meantime it is entirely made up by you and Mike.  You both intentionally ignore that Jeremy insisted he spoke to Julie after calling Chelmsford because that blows your claims out of the water even more.  No way did he have time to dress and call Julie and get in front of police to be passed so you ignore his own testimony on top of ignoring the reality of how long his conversation with police lasted.

Yeah I know that West estimated he was on the phone for less than a minute before placing Jeremy on hold but his estimate is not credible it would have taken several minutes to record everything he got from Jeremy.  If Nevill had already called and provided such information then West would not have taken it down from Jeremy, would have told him Nevill already phoned so they already knew and already dispatched police to the scene.

Your revisionist claims have no evidentiary foundation and don't hold up to scrutiny.

Didn't someone once make the suggestion that west and Bonnett made a deliberate decision to withhold information from Jeremy just in case it was needed to use it against him later?

[Reader]

Perhaps you'd like to give us your version of how Jeremy managed to get to WHF as quickly as he did, when according to Mike the phone calling didn't end until 3.46, it took 6(ish) minutes to dress and get out of the house, into the car, yet he managed to arrive, having driven slowly, STOPPED to put on a sweater -during a journey which according to Mike, only takes 5 minutes-  at 3.52.

The times you mention are inaccurate. As already explained, Pc West's log indicates Jeremy's call had ended by 3:42. There's no evidence as to when Jeremy got dressed.  He had time to do so before he spoke to Pc West, and there's no evidence that he needed long to get dressed. He was quite simply dressed - no tie or anything else that would take long to put on. Nobody knows how fast Jeremy drove before being overtaken. It seems that Jeremy doesn't remember his speed (and wasn't asked about it by the police). I think that his average speed was at least 25mph, and that he was driving for some time between 5 and 7 minutes before being overtaken.

[Caroline]

Didn't someone once make the suggestion that west and Bonnett made a deliberate decision to withhold information from Jeremy just in case it was needed to use it against him later?

Yes, that was Reader. You never know when you might need to frame someone 

[scipio_usmc]

The times you mention are inaccurate. As already explained, Pc West's log indicates Jeremy's call had ended by 3:42. There's no evidence as to when Jeremy got dressed.  He had time to do so before he spoke to Pc West, and there's no evidence that he needed long to get dressed. He was quite simply dressed - no tie or anything else that would take long to put on. Nobody knows how fast Jeremy drove before being overtaken. It seems that Jeremy doesn't remember his speed (and wasn't asked about it by the police). I think that his average speed was at least 25mph, and that he was driving for some time between 5 and 7 minutes before being overtaken.

He was wearing a lot of clothes it would have taken several minutes to get dressed. There would be no reason to dress unless he intended to go over which he didn't instead he called police and they told him to go over.  He didn't have to dress because he was already dressed and he slipped up because he totally forgot to make up the lie he dressed after hanging up with police.

[Caroline]

The times you mention are inaccurate. As already explained, Pc West's log indicates Jeremy's call had ended by 3:42. There's no evidence as to when Jeremy got dressed.  He had time to do so before he spoke to Pc West, and there's no evidence that he needed long to get dressed. He was quite simply dressed - no tie or anything else that would take long to put on. Nobody knows how fast Jeremy drove before being overtaken. It seems that Jeremy doesn't remember his speed (and wasn't asked about it by the police). I think that his average speed was at least 25mph, and that he was driving for some time between 5 and 7 minutes before being overtaken.

The times Jeremy mentioned at trial must also be inaccurate then, or are you saying he has a better memory now than he did then?  There is no evidence or mention of Jeremy getting dressed because he already was dressed! He had time to redecorate his lounge if he called the police at 03:36 after a (supposed) call from his father at 03:10!!

[Caroline]

He was wearing a lot of clothes it would have taken several minutes to get dressed. There would be no reason to dress unless he intended to go over which he didn't instead he called police and they told him to go over.  He didn't have to dress because he was already dressed and he slipped up because he totally forgot to make up the lie he dressed after hanging up with police.

Thank you!

[Jane]

The times you mention are inaccurate. As already explained, Pc West's log indicates Jeremy's call had ended by 3:42. There's no evidence as to when Jeremy got dressed.  He had time to do so before he spoke to Pc West, and there's no evidence that he needed long to get dressed. He was quite simply dressed - no tie or anything else that would take long to put on. Nobody knows how fast Jeremy drove before being overtaken. It seems that Jeremy doesn't remember his speed (and wasn't asked about it by the police). I think that his average speed was at least 25mph, and that he was driving for some time between 5 and 7 minutes before being overtaken.

Quite possibly had never UNdressed and I don't accept, that having allegedly heard that his father sounded panicked, diddled around phoning 2 police stations without dialling 999 immediately AND calling his girlfriend, he then dawdles his way to WHF, stopping to put on a sweater, driving between 25-30mph.

[Jane]

Yes, that was Reader. You never know when you might need to frame someone 

My optician does excellent frames

[mike tesko]

How miraculously absurd, that every other timed event in the 3.36am  phone log pertaining to Jeremy's call, is recorded accurately, except the timing of the call itself, from Jeremy?

[scipio_usmc]

Yes, that was Reader. You never know when you might need to frame someone 

Yes at one point in a debate with me last year reader suggested West intentionally withheld that Nevill called because he didn't know if they would need to pretend the call never happened.  Apart from framing Jeremy what reason could they have to pretend the call never happened?  So in effect he claimed they kept silent in case they needed to frame him.   

[Jane]

From my dealings with Jeremy from 1989 onwards, I can tell you all now that Jeremy hadn't the foggiest idea of the time these calls were received, or made. But he did know the sequence with which each event occurred. Other people have introduced timings to these events, sometimes as many as two or three different times have been banded around, with the sole intention of trying to get Jeremy confused and to either trick him into making a confession, or try to portray him to the jury as someone unhinged. I have put a lot of time and effort into working out the correct timings of all these calls by one party or another, or vice versa. My timings are as close as anybody will ever get to the truth. This is because, a part from the timed events known to be true by the police themselves (3.26am, 3.29am, 3.35am, 3.36am, 3.48am, 3,52am, and 4.02am) all the rest fit somewhere within those indidual and collective frameworks...

So according to their agenda, people have taken their pick, from those times you've quoted as being known, as true, by the police.

[scipio_usmc]

How miraculously absurd, that every other timed event in the 3.36am  phone log pertaining to Jeremy's call, is recorded accurately, except the timing of the call itself, from Jeremy?

The times are not exact.  For instance around 3:30 is when the cops at Witham were contacted and they later notified dispatch around 3:35 that they were leaving the station and probably actually got underway a couple of minutes later.

Furthermore, West was not trained ot handle emergency calls they normally go to 999. West normally fielded non-emergency calls and thus didn't even usually have to write down anything. After Jeremy started telling his problem West realized it was an emergency, grabbed a log sheet and began writing down the key information.  It is understandable how he would not remember to write down the time until the end of the call and at that point to record the end time or to screw up and misread the clock or even intent to write one thing but write another by mistake.  We all have written words we did not intent to .  I just did it by accident in this very post.  I thought of the word "intend" and that is what I meant to type and yet I typed "intent". It is not a typo in the sense of I meant to hit a key and accidentally hit the key next to it. I simply typed a slightly different thing than my mind wanted.  This happens.  People will mean to write a particular number and yet somehow write something different and not simply by hitting the key above, below or next to the one they intend.  This happens while handwriting things as well.     

To try reading anything into such errors is ridiculous let alone constructing a huge conspiracy around such.

[Reader]

The estimate was he was doing more more than 20MPH which resulted in them rapidly approaching and overtaking the vehicle they suddenly encountered which they later realized was Jeremy.

That's incorrect. Their original estimates were "about 30 mph", "about 30 mph" and "no more than 30 mph". They never estimated "more more than 20MPH". They were travelling at high speed, so their approach was rapid even if Jeremy was travelling at 30 mph. Even at very high speed, they cannot overtake instantaneously - it takes a second or two (which is "a period of time", albeit a short one). The only way of calculating 20 mph as a maximum speed for the last mile is by assuming it took Jeremy at least 3 minutes, but the "3 to 4 minutes" that the police put in their statements was not based on use of a watch - it was just an estimate they agreed on that (in hindsight) conflicted with their estimates of Jeremy's speed. There was no reason for deciding that their "3 to 4 minutes" estimate was more accurate than their "about 30 mph" estimate.

. . . in fact both of you present the same made up lie that Jeremy phoned Witham, then Julie and then Chelmsford

That's mike tesko's theory, but we can't be sure that Jeremy tried to call Witham, as that may have been something that the police invented later as having been mentioned by Jeremy.

They put NO MORE than 30MPH in their statements

That's incorrect - only Pc Saxby used that wording; the other two officers used "about 30 mph".

. . . they drove the distance and took into account the distance they recalled between their speed and his speed.

That doesn't even make sense. The police clearly didn't try to calculate a relative speed (their own speed was irrelevant); they just realized that taking at least 3 minutes to cover a mile implies an average speed of at most 20 mph, but "at least 3 minutes" wasn't known for certain, so their conclusion was unsound. All they knew was that their time estimate and their speed estimate weren't both accurate. In my opinion, it's much easier to estimate reasonably accurately the speed of a car as you overtake it than to estimate accurately without use of a watch or clock the length of a time interval of several minutes, especially when there's no particular reason for estimating it.

[Jane]

........................ we can't be sure that Jeremy tried to call Witham, as that may have been something that the police invented later as having been mentioned by Jeremy..................................

DuuuH!!! Are you REALLY suggesting that the police MADE UP a fictitious call, from Jeremy, to another station?? WHY would they choose Witham when Tiptree, Tollesbury and Maldon were all nearer? Still, I suppose, as Jeremy made up a call from Neville, what was good for the goose was good for the gander.

[mike tesko]

How miraculously absurd, that every other timed event in the 3.36am  phone log pertaining to Jeremy's call, is recorded accurately, except the timing of the call itself, from Jeremy?

Pc West and Bonnets excuse about making a mistake over the timing of Jeremy's call is really unacceptable...

Even the judgement from the 2002 appeal, makes comment about the fact that the occupants of CA07 had been deployed to the incident before Jeremy made his own call to the police at Chelmsford? There is no  doubt whatsoever in my mind that the appellate court saw right through the lies of West and Bonnet. It would have been the easiest of things to do by either West or Bonnet to be asked the basic question,  and to give a straight forward "Yes", or "No", answer to whether or not the occupants of CA07, had been deployed to the incident before or after Jeremy's call?