A paradox - with rifle at bedroom window, one bullet case too many linked to She

[scipio_usmc]

First of all, the comparison chart which I have mentioned, was the source from which the bullet weights of 2.27 grams was obtained from. In that chart it makes mention of the fact that a certain type of .22 ammunition which had been manufactured by Eley weighed 2.27 gram, which equates when converted into grains, about 35 grain, not 40 grain. Since this chart formed part of their Report into the circumstances of the shooting of the victims in the Bamber case, I have no reason to doubt that the information contained in the comparison chart was / is genuine...

You can't find any evidence ELey made 35 grain subsonic bullets- that is a very good reason to doubt their chart is accurate if their chart asserts what you claim. You seem to be wiggling around leaving the door open for it to be bullets by a different manufacturer that they might have been referring to. 

[mike tesko]

Bullets can be matched to cartridge cases, by reference to the position of crimping marks on the base of the bullet itself, and the outside of cartridge cases...

If substitution of one type of cartridge case for another type of cartridge case, with the view of promoting the false idea that this was a one gun crime, using bullets from the same batch, then obviously manufacturers crimping techniques would be microscopically visible,...

[mike tesko]

You can't find any evidence ELey made 35 grain subsonic bullets- that is a very good reason to doubt their chart is accurate if their chart asserts what you claim. You seem to be wiggling around leaving the door open for it to be bullets by a different manufacturer that they might have been referring to.

No, I am not trying to say that these 35 grain bullets were manufactured by a different ammunition manufacturer. It is clearly recorded the the bullet weight for Ekey .22 (short) ammunition was / is 2.27 grams. Now when you convert 2.27 grams into grains. It produces a result of about 35 grain does it not?

[mike tesko]

No, I am not trying to say that these 35 grain bullets were manufactured by a different ammunition manufacturer. It is clearly recorded the the bullet weight for Ekey .22 (short) ammunition was / is 2.27 grams. Now when you convert 2.27 grams into grains. It produces a result of about 35 grain does it not?

But, it is my belief that other types of .22 ammunition was used in the shootings...

[mike tesko]

For example, I believe that some of the .22 ammunition used in the shootings, was manufactured by Remington, and or Winchester, and that at least 14 of the 25 bullets fired during the incident, were bullets not manufactured by Eley. In fact, that it was the very act of substituting around or at least 14 cartridge cases, with test fired Eley cartridge cases, that turned this case into a one gun crime...

[mike tesko]

For example, I believe that some of the .22 ammunition used in the shootings, was manufactured by Remington, and or Winchester, and that at least 14 of the 25 bullets fired during the incident, were bullets not manufactured by Eley. In fact, that it was the very act of substituting around or at least 14 cartridge cases, with test fired Eley cartridge cases, that turned this case into a one gun crime...

But for cartridge case substitution having taken place, it would not have been easy to link individual Eley bullets to Eley cartridge cases, but if substitution of 14 bullets cases occurred because some of the ammunition used had been manufactured by Eley, different types of .22 ammunition manufactured by Eley, Remington and Winchester, and then substition of these Remington and Winchester cartridge cases had been swapped and replaced by 14 Eley test fired cartridge dases, then you are going to get a mismatch at the base of some bullets, with reference to the different crimping techniques present upon the cartridge case, adopted by separate manufacturers, is bound to show up during microscopic examination...

[scipio_usmc]

Bullets can be matched to cartridge cases, by reference to the position of crimping marks on the base of the bullet itself, and the outside of cartridge cases...

If substitution of one type of cartridge case for another type of cartridge case, with the view of promoting the false idea that this was a one gun crime, using bullets from the same batch, then obviously manufacturers crimping techniques would be microscopically visible,...

More fantasy. Post a reputable ballistics journal article or other source that discusses the ability to prove a 22LR bullet came from a specific spent case to the exclusion of all others by crimping marks.

 

[scipio_usmc]

No, I am not trying to say that these 35 grain bullets were manufactured by a different ammunition manufacturer. It is clearly recorded the the bullet weight for Ekey .22 (short) ammunition was / is 2.27 grams. Now when you convert 2.27 grams into grains. It produces a result of about 35 grain does it not?

Eley specs were 40 grain/ 2.59 grams for their subsonic unjacketed ammo and it still is today.  Their subsonic ammo was/is coveted because they are one of the few to make 40 grain subsonic.

[mike tesko]

Eley specs were 40 grain/ 2.59 grams for their subsonic unjacketed ammo and it still is today.  Their subsonic ammo was/is coveted because they are one of the few to make 40 grain subsonic.

Not all the ammo' used in the shootings were .22 LR type, according to the ballistic experts findings:-

(a) - .22LR bullet
(b) - .22 bullet
(C) - bullet

You are twisting the facts of the ballistic evidence produced after physical examination of all the bullets by the expert. There is a massive body of evidence which proves that despite a variety of different types of .22 and .223 ammunition used in these shootings, that all these different types of .22 bullet have all been linked as having been fired from the anshutz rifle by a reliance upon 25 Eley .22 LR cartridge cases, yet the recovered bullets were not and never had been .22 LR ammunition to start with, some pof the .22 bullets had possibly been manufactured by Remington and or Winchester, yet no cartridge cases which appear in the revised batch of crime scene cartridge cases because the other types were removed and replaced by Eley .22 LR cartridge cases which had been fired via the anshutz rifle during unreported test firing of the gun. This gave the impression that all the bullets fired during the shootings had been Eley .22LR ammunition, because the revised batch of 25 cartridge cases had indeed all been fired via the anshutz rifle, albeit, some during the shooting of the victims, and others not until a month or so during unreported test firing of the anshutz rifle with Eley .22LR ammunition. 14 other cartridge cases (MDF/100) which are still kept at Huntingdon Lab' were manufactured by Remington, and or Winchester, and these are 14 of the original cartridge cases fired at the time of the shootings...

It would be a very simple and straight forward process to identify the different crimping marks of the various Eley, Remington and Winchester types of .22 ammunition, markings on the base of the 25 bullets, against the position of the crimping marks on the revised batch if 25 cartridge cases, by microscopic examination, because each of these manufacturers have their own unique equipment used in the crimping process, plus other unique products which could be identified on the base of all the recovered bullets, against the batch of revised 25 cartridge cases, thus proving the ballistic evidence has been tampered with as I have described to make this into a one gun crime, with use of one type of ammunition, when all along at least three different weapons and type of ammunition had been used...

[mike tesko]

The prosecuting authoraties have made this into a one gun,  one type of ammunition case, despite evidence which us existence  pointing to the contrary...

[scipio_usmc]

Not all the ammo' used in the shootings were .22 LR type, according to the ballistic experts findings:-

(a) - .22LR bullet
(b) - .22 bullet
(C) - bullet

You are twisting the facts of the ballistic evidence produced after physical examination of all the bullets by the expert. There is a massive body of evidence which proves that despite a variety of different types of .22 and .223 ammunition used in these shootings, that all these different types of .22 bullet have all been linked as having been fired from the anshutz rifle by a reliance upon 25 Eley .22 LR cartridge cases, yet the recovered bullets were not and never had been .22 LR ammunition to start with, some pof the .22 bullets had possibly been manufactured by Remington and or Winchester, yet no cartridge cases which appear in the revised batch of crime scene cartridge cases because the other types were removed and replaced by Eley .22 LR cartridge cases which had been fired via the anshutz rifle during unreported test firing of the gun. This gave the impression that all the bullets fired during the shootings had been Eley .22LR ammunition, because the revised batch of 25 cartridge cases had indeed all been fired via the anshutz rifle, albeit, some during the shooting of the victims, and others not until a minthbir so during unreported test firing of the anshutz rifle with Eley .22LR ammunition. 14 other cartridge cases (MDF/100) which are still kept at Huntingdon Lab' were manufactured by Remington, and or Winchester, and these are 14 of the original cartridge cases fired at the time of the shootings...

It would be a very simple and straight forward process to identify the different crimping marks of the various Eley, Remington and Winchester types of .22 ammunition, markings on the base of the 25 bullets, against the position of the crimping marks on the revised batch if 25 cartridge cases, by microscopic examination, because each of these manufacturers have their own unique equipment used in the crimping process, plus other unique products which could be identified on the base of all the recovered bullets, against the batch of revised 25 cartridge cases, thus proving the ballistic evidence has been tampered with as I have described to make this into a one gun crime, with use of one type of ammunition, when all along at least three different weapons and type of ammunition had been used...

Aside from a wide variety of .22 caliber centerfire cartridges such as:

.22 Winchester
.22 Winchester Magnum
.22 Hornet

there are several varieties of 22 rimfire:

.22 BB
.22 CB
.22 short
.22 long
.22 extra long
.22 long rifle
.22 Winchester Magnum

There is no such thing as just 22 rimfire. When someone uses the term .22 rimfire they mean .22LR because this is the main 22 rimfire round employed today.  .22BB and .22CB are used in special guns that are employed in the same role as airguns.  .22 short, 22 long and .22 extra long are all antiquated rounds. .22 short was altered to create the .22 long which in turn was altered to create the .22LR and at that point they had a winner. .22 LR is the .22 rimfire round that thrived and to this day is still popular.  When people say 22 rimfire they mean 22LR.  The 22 magnum bullet is the same as the 22LR but the case is larger. it thus has much higher velocity and thus does more damage at a longer distance. It is not nearly as popular as the 22LR though.

The only bullet that didn't have its largest fragment recovered was one of the bullets that killed Nicholas.  All the rest were recovered and were determined to be unjacketed 22LR.

The Tactical Firearms Police had 2 rifles in its arsenal:

Parker Hale M82 Sniper rifle (7.62mm) and the Ruger Mini-14. The Sniper rifle was rarely used and when it was used it was employed for long range sniping not in close quarters.  So for sure the officers were either armed with Mini-14 or 9mm handguns.  They only used shotguns against animals.

The rounds acquired for police use in the Mini-14 are not only larger than the 22LR (62 grain SS109 NATO) they are jacketed.  If any such bullets had been fired into the victims the ME would have found the jackets. Moreover, the ME would have recognized the substantial difference in the injuries because the larger size combined with much greater velocity results in much more massive injury.  You play worthless games, your claims are easy to debunk.




 


   

[scipio_usmc]

The prosecuting authoraties have made this into a one gun,  one type of ammunition case, despite evidence which us existence  pointing to the contrary...

Complete nonsense. I already listed the .22 rimfire cartridges that exist:

.22 BB
.22 CB
.22 short
.22 long
.22 extra long
.22 long rifle
.22 Winchester Magnum

The bullets were all unjacketed 22LR which is often simply called .22 or .22 rimfire because it is the predominant 22 round. 22lr dwarves all other 22 rounds in terms of quantity produced and weapons chambered in it.

There is no way any of the recovered fragments were by a 62 grain 5.56mm round fired by a police Mini-14 .

The 62 grain police ammunition has a steel tip and is jacketed. This round was invented in Europe because existing US ammo fragmented inside a body thus was considered inhumane by European standards and lacked steel penetration.  Thanks to its composition the 62 grain round can penetrate a steel helmet at over 600m. The lack of fragmenting inside a person means the rounds are normally mostly intact when removed from victims.  The velocity is 3100 feet per second compared to 1040 fps for the Eley subsonic 22LR.

The following photo shows a cross section of the 62 grain bullet- on the left is standard NATO 62 grain the right is a British version:



These bullets are 23mm long and are nothing at all like the composition of the all lead .22 LR

This shows the cross section of the 22 short, 22 long and 22LR an deven shows them inside the case:



They are not even remotely similar to the NATO round and are shorter and lighter.




 

 

[mike tesko]

Complete nonsense. I already listed the .22 rimfire cartridges that exist:

.22 BB
.22 CB
.22 short
.22 long
.22 extra long
.22 long rifle
.22 Winchester Magnum

The bullets were all unjacketed 22LR which is often simply called .22 or .22 rimfire because it is the predominant 22 round. 22lr dwarves all other 22 rounds in terms of quantity produced and weapons chambered in it.

There is no way any of the recovered fragments were by a 62 grain 5.56mm round fired by a police Mini-14 .

The 62 grain police ammunition has a steel tip and is jacketed. This round was invented in Europe because existing US ammo fragmented inside a body thus was considered inhumane by European standards and lacked steel penetration.  Thanks to its composition the 62 grain round can penetrate a steel helmet at over 600m. The lack of fragmenting inside a person means the rounds are normally mostly intact when removed from victims.  The velocity is 3100 feet per second compared to 1040 fps for the Eley subsonic 22LR.

The following photo shows a cross section of the 62 grain bullet- on the left is standard NATO 62 grain the right is a British version:



These bullets are 23mm long and are nothing at all like the composition of the all lead .22 LR

This shows the cross section of the 22 short, 22 long and 22LR an deven shows them inside the case:



They are not even remotely similar to the NATO round and are shorter and lighter.




 

 

no, they were not all, .22 LR Eley ammunition, as confirmed by the ballistic expert, Fletcher - some of the bullets had been Eley .22 LR bullets, some were .22 bullet, and yet others still were described by Fletcher, as being parts of the bullets which were simply described as, merely, bullets...

[mike tesko]

Different types of . 22 ammunition, were definitely used in the shootings, bullets which had been fired via the anshuzt rile...

[scipio_usmc]

Different types of . 22 ammunition, were definitely used in the shootings, bullets which had been fired via the anshuzt rile...

No they were all 22 LR bullets. Here again are all 22 rimfire bullet calibers:

.22 BB
.22 CB
.22 short
.22 long
.22 extra long
.22 long rifle
.22 Winchester Magnum

Which bullets did the experts assert they were aside from 22LR?  None

Post the full trial testimony and demonstrate where they asserted any bullets were anything other than 22LR.  You intentionally post limited information and try to twist it but it doesn't work we are not as foolish as you wish.

I posted the cross sections of the bullets used by the Police Mini-14s and of 22 rimfire bullets.  They are not even remotely similar. The police bullets would have exited Sheila's neck. Your claims are all absurd from the standpoint of people knowledgeable in ballistics. I used the 62 grain green tip round personally, it is not a lead round.