Author Topic: How would you react ?  (Read 28524 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #360 on: April 19, 2015, 12:54:AM »
:) you see that's my problem, 'Well before I start I  will tell everyone who will listen that I hate my parents, carry out the perfect crime leaving no forensic evidence, but then I will toss the silencer in the cupboard, louse up the phone call, tell my bird I did it and then dump her'

He did tell everyone who would listen about what a raw deal his parents gave him. Especially compared to Sheila. He would have told Julie more than anyone else.

There was a mountain of forensic evidence. Thread already created.

He told Julie he had committed the massacre. There is a thread saying why. Lots of reasons.

The silencer was put in box, underneath other boxes, guns, and dartboards at the back of the gun cupboard. The police did not find it.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 01:19:AM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #361 on: April 19, 2015, 01:01:AM »
another question - I just read a statement of an officer who was not called until gone 5am . He was told it was a siege situation with possible hostages being held or killed . Now why would they say that when they had not heard a single sound or apparently seen any movement at all? Jeremy had not said that any shots had been fired .they said they had challenged the house - but had no response - who where they challenging ? they had seen or heard  nothing . also one officer was told to retreat from his original position for his own safety?

You're clutching at straws again.

It was a siege situation at 5pm. Just because they had not heard anything doesn't mean they won't treat it as a siege. A raid team entered, if that is not a siege I don't know what is.

It is correct the police logs say 'conversations in the house' and then 'conversations in the house met with no response'. Jeremy tried to claim there were conversations in the house, decades later. Perhaps he didn't notice it on the night.
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Offline Adam

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #362 on: April 19, 2015, 01:05:AM »
so if he played it down - then why did they not go in ? Jeremy never said it was a siege , he never said a shot had been fired - there were children in the house . Now if they had seen movement or heard something I would totally agree with you.

No but he did say Sheila was a 'nutter', 'do lally', a 'looney' 'psychotic depressive' and 'should be locked up'.

He also said Neville had rang him, and that Sheila knew how to use the guns.

He did not urge the police to enter WHF or tell them about the loose windows. Bews and Miller etc were never going to charge in.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 01:06:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #363 on: April 19, 2015, 01:10:AM »
I have a question for those who believe JB to be guilty, why do you think he rang the local police instead of 999?
What I mean is, if you think he is guilty and the whole thing was planned out why wouldn't he ring 999?

He didn't ring the local police. He rang the forth furthest away police station. He was trying to delay things.
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Offline Adam

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #364 on: April 19, 2015, 01:17:AM »
I did not say she had shot everyone else - I said he heard a shot  or possibly shots

So he would have rushed upstairs to try and find out what the hell was happening . So  how long would it take her to shoot the twins and June ? We don't know that all the shots were made to each victim all at once do we?

Do you think Neville was downstairs and heard shots upstairs ?

Then ran upstairs in just his PJ's. Getting shot twice from close range, then twice from a few feet. Before running straight back downstairs.

If he ran upstairs and got within inches of Sheila holding the rifle, there would have been an upstairs confrontation.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 01:39:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Stephanie

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #365 on: April 19, 2015, 01:22:AM »
:) you see that's my problem, 'Well before I start I  will tell everyone who will listen that I hate my parents, carry out the perfect crime leaving no forensic evidence, but then I will toss the silencer in the cupboard, louse up the phone call, tell my bird I did it and then dump her'

That is how a psychopath would work.... And they rely on 'confirmation bias' (I've posted about it on another thread) among other things, in order for people to believe their pleas.
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Stephanie

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #366 on: April 19, 2015, 01:23:AM »
:) you see that's my problem, 'Well before I start I  will tell everyone who will listen that I hate my parents, carry out the perfect crime leaving no forensic evidence, but then I will toss the silencer in the cupboard, louse up the phone call, tell my bird I did it and then dump her'

Did he hate his parents?
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Stephanie

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #367 on: April 19, 2015, 01:27:AM »

AH, but you may be reckoning without a mind set which is superior to your average everyday pleb -that's anyone who isn't him- and has planned this so carefully that he won't be suspected and has fed the girlfriend enough BS that if she SHOULD go to the police the story will be so ridiculous they won't believe her.

Agreed!
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #368 on: April 19, 2015, 01:38:AM »


That is further convoluting the whole thing!

How is it? In order to support a theory of innocence or guilt, surely you would agree that you need to look at the entire picture, from every angle possible.

“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Stephanie

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #369 on: April 19, 2015, 01:52:AM »
6 shots to June were in rapid succession.  The 7th shot (between her eyes) was after she walked around the bed so could and probably did happen after Nevill was killed in the kitchen.

4 shots to Nicholas were close together indicating firing in quick succession, the 5th shot also appears to have been delivered the same time.

3 shots to Daniel seem to have been fired in succession.  There was nothing at all that indicated a gap in the shots fired to the boys and there is no reason to go back and shoot them more later. 

If Sheila had shot June the 6 times and then the boys each once that would only leave 2 bullets to use on Nevill.  It is quite clear the first magazine was used exclusively on June and Nevill.

No matter how many times you avoid facing it, a call from Nevill to Jeremy makes no sense whether any shots had been fired or not.

Nevill had no reason to call Jeremy at all, if shots were fired he would have called 999 requesting medical help.  Without shots being fired he would have zero reason to call Jeremy.  He had the physical strength to disarm her himself, he had weapons to use if he was scared to disarm her with his bare hands and Jeremy didn't have a good relationship with her so would be worthless in terns of calming her down.

this is before even taking into account the evidence that establishes Sheila didn't load the gun, beat anyone with the gun or shoot anyone with the gun.  That is even moreso why Nevill would have no reason to call Jeremy. 

While you choose to believe it credible that someone who decided to commit suicide would wash and change her clothes before doing so that is not what objective rational people believe.  Objective rational people likewise don't believe the bloody/GSR stained clothing including gloves would vanish without a trace. Nor do they believe she could have shot herself without getting GSR on her nightdress and especially don't believe she could have killed herself while seated, stood up without the blood dripping to the bottom of her gown, put away the moderator then returned to the bedroom, lied down flat, put the gun across her and after a pool of blood formed to put the bible in it.

This all impacts the tale he told about receiving a call from Nevill.  The call fails on so many different levels including his alleged reaction to the alleged call being not credible.

You've really thought this through... I must say, though it's awful to even think about let alone read, I tend to agree with this. NB was more than likely the first to have been murdered.
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #370 on: April 19, 2015, 02:24:AM »
You've really thought this through... I must say, though it's awful to even think about let alone read, I tend to agree with this. NB was more than likely the first to have been murdered.

In all likelihood June was dead before Nevill. The initial shot to her head was quiet severe. She walked around the bed then collapsed before getting out of the room.  The shot between the eyes was probably delivered after she was already dead, it was simply to make sure.  If she was still alive and Nevill died before her then the kitchen fight and reloadings were rather quick. 

The gun reloadings were worked out a while ago based on the totality of the evidence including spent casings.   

Julie said that prior to the murders Jeremy planned to say he got a call from Nevill.  Such plan eliminates the ability to kill Nevill in his sleep. How could he claim Nevill called if he died in his sleep?  June was attacked in her sleep though.  At least 4 and possibly 6 shots were delivered as she was lying in bed.  The 2 to her chest could have been as she was sitting up in bed or even as she started to get up.  So he most likely fired at June first. 

Nevill was shot as his left side profile was to to the killer.  He could have been sitting in bed or could have been getting out of bed.  He definitely wasn't upright because the wound to his jaw and arm were downward trajectories and if he had been upright then the trajectories would have been up.  Vanezis failed to consider that Sheila and Jeremy were both shorter than Nevill and thus would have needed to aim up if Nevill had been fully upright. 

The magazine only holds 10 rounds so this means the gun was likely empty.  There is a way to load 11 by chambering a round and then ejecting the magazine adding a 10th round and then reinserting it into the gun.  If there were 11 that means the shot between June's eyes was delivered as well at this time.  It seems odd though that she would run around the with the killer still there in the way. So I am more apt to think the shot between her eyes came later.  Once the gun was empty one of two things happened- 1) the killer fled to the kitchen to reload and Nevill chased the killer finally catching up in the kitchen  or 2) Nevill fled to the kitchen to arm himself with the killer chased him and caught up in the kitchen.

The whole reason why things proceeded to the kitchen is because Nevill wasn't immobilized by the 4 shots he suffered and the gun was empty.  Nevill was beaten until he was unconscious and the killer was then able to reload.  He was then shot 2 times in the top of the head and the killer moved slightly and then shot him 2 times in the right side of the head. The killer then fully reloaded and went upstairs again with either 10 or 11 rounds in the gun.  If 11 then at this point the killer shot June between the eyes to make sure she was really dead then used 8 shots on the boys and the last 2 on Sheila. The gun was then empty again.

So the gun was partially reloaded to kill Nevill in the kitchen then fully reloaded with 10 rounds combined used on Sheila and the boys.  in all likelihood the boys were killed first then Sheila bu if Sheila had woken up and been out of her room then she was killed before the boys. There is no way to know for sure if she woke up herself or not.  I doubt she did given her state of being overly tired because of she was being given too much Haldol and wasn't taking a countering agent.

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Offline Stephanie

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #371 on: April 19, 2015, 02:57:AM »
In all likelihood June was dead before Nevill. The initial shot to her head was quiet severe. She walked around the bed then collapsed before getting out of the room.  The shot between the eyes was probably delivered after she was already dead, it was simply to make sure.  If she was still alive and Nevill died before her then the kitchen fight and reloadings were rather quick. 

The gun reloadings were worked out a while ago based on the totality of the evidence including spent casings.   

Julie said that prior to the murders Jeremy planned to say he got a call from Nevill.  Such plan eliminates the ability to kill Nevill in his sleep. How could he claim Nevill called if he died in his sleep?  June was attacked in her sleep though.  At least 4 and possibly 6 shots were delivered as she was lying in bed.  The 2 to her chest could have been as she was sitting up in bed or even as she started to get up.  So he most likely fired at June first. 

Nevill was shot as his left side profile was to to the killer.  He could have been sitting in bed or could have been getting out of bed.  He definitely wasn't upright because the wound to his jaw and arm were downward trajectories and if he had been upright then the trajectories would have been up.  Vanezis failed to consider that Sheila and Jeremy were both shorter than Nevill and thus would have needed to aim up if Nevill had been fully upright. 

The magazine only holds 10 rounds so this means the gun was likely empty.  There is a way to load 11 by chambering a round and then ejecting the magazine adding a 10th round and then reinserting it into the gun.  If there were 11 that means the shot between June's eyes was delivered as well at this time.  It seems odd though that she would run around the with the killer still there in the way. So I am more apt to think the shot between her eyes came later.  Once the gun was empty one of two things happened- 1) the killer fled to the kitchen to reload and Nevill chased the killer finally catching up in the kitchen  or 2) Nevill fled to the kitchen to arm himself with the killer chased him and caught up in the kitchen.

The whole reason why things proceeded to the kitchen is because Nevill wasn't immobilized by the 4 shots he suffered and the gun was empty.  Nevill was beaten until he was unconscious and the killer was then able to reload.  He was then shot 2 times in the top of the head and the killer moved slightly and then shot him 2 times in the right side of the head. The killer then fully reloaded and went upstairs again with either 10 or 11 rounds in the gun.  If 11 then at this point the killer shot June between the eyes to make sure she was really dead then used 8 shots on the boys and the last 2 on Sheila. The gun was then empty again.

So the gun was partially reloaded to kill Nevill in the kitchen then fully reloaded with 10 rounds combined used on Sheila and the boys.  in all likelihood the boys were killed first then Sheila bu if Sheila had woken up and been out of her room then she was killed before the boys. There is no way to know for sure if she woke up herself or not.  I doubt she did given her state of being overly tired because of she was being given too much Haldol and wasn't taking a countering agent.

Of everything I've read, this sounds the most likely. Have you considered forwarding this to JB?

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Offline Jan

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #372 on: April 19, 2015, 09:47:AM »
You're clutching at straws again.

It was a siege situation at 5pm. Just because they had not heard anything doesn't mean they won't treat it as a siege. A raid team entered, if that is not a siege I don't know what is.

It is correct the police logs say 'conversations in the house' and then 'conversations in the house met with no response'. Jeremy tried to claim there were conversations in the house, decades later. Perhaps he didn't notice it on the night.


He was not with the officers who were trying apparently for two hours to get a response so he would not have known . Its not his fault that the officers can not make entries correctly. Its quite clear to the rest of us what "in conversation with" means . Its is as clear as day - but apparently that was just another mistake that we have to let them off for.

Offline Jan

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #373 on: April 19, 2015, 09:49:AM »
No but he did say Sheila was a 'nutter', 'do lally', a 'looney' 'psychotic depressive' and 'should be locked up'.

He also said Neville had rang him, and that Sheila knew how to use the guns.

He did not urge the police to enter WHF or tell them about the loose windows. Bews and Miller etc were never going to charge in.

I have asked you several times and told you why you should not keep repeating that. It is not necessary and I have explained why I think that was entered for effect in the later statements. He used the correct medical terms according to the few notebooks we have seen.

Offline Jan

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Re: How would you react ?
« Reply #374 on: April 19, 2015, 09:50:AM »
He didn't ring the local police. He rang the forth furthest away police station. He was trying to delay things.

so why not just wait 15 minutes at his house then ring 999 ? Your argument makes no sense