Author Topic: 13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...  (Read 51560 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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We have all now seen the truth in black and white, we have had sight of the firearms register, dealers register and firearms certificate entry, as well as a bill of sale concerning the 500 rounds of Eley ammunition sold and purchased by Ralph Bamber on the 30th November 1984 - the ammunition subject of that sale and purchase was ELEY .22 subsonic, not ELEY .22LR ammunition. The firearms dealer is required by law to accurately record the type of ammunition sold to a certificate holder in the dealers register and on the persons firearm certificate, at peril of losing his dealership status if he makes any errors, or fails to document the aforementioned records accurately...

Firstly, we had Skippy claiming that the ballistic expert Fletcher had wrongly described the batch of crime scene bullets all  being ELEY .22 LR bullet types, even though he describes some of the bullets as simply being .22 bullets, instead of .22LR bullets, and now Skippy is arguing that the dealer Radcliffe made the exact same mistake in describing the type of ammunition he sold to Ralph Bamber, as ELEY .22 subsonic rounds, instead of ELEY .22LR rounds? What a coincidence that the ballistic expert, Fletcher, and the gun dealer Radcliffe, should make the exact same mistake relating to the same type of ammunition?

The truth we all see is that you are xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxxx.  I didn't say anything about Fletcher making a mistake let alone claim he made a mistake in assessing all to be Eley.

I simply pointed out that there are many different names for the ammunition purchased by Nevill including- ".22 RF", ".22 rim fire", ".22LR", "22 long rifle", and ".22".  Far from these designations being different they all mean the same thing.

Different .22 sized ammunition includes: ".22 centerfire", ".22 Winchester Magnum", ".22 short", ".22 Stinger", ".22 long", ".22 CB cap", and ".22 BB cap". 

Nevill's weapon was chambered in 22LR and that is what he purchased he didn't purchase any of the other sized 22 ammunition because his weapon could not fire them.  What you are suggesting would be like me purchasing a pistol chambered in .45 APC but deciding to purchase 10mm ammunition for it even though it can't fire 10mm ammunition and I have no other weapons chambered in 10mm so the ammunition would be worthless to me and the .45 pistol would have to simply be a show piece because I would not be able to use it unless I went out and bought the correct ammunition at a later date.

Your claims are xxxxxx on top of being unsupported xxxxxxxxx.   

 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 07:54:PM by maggie »
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Offline mike tesko

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AP purchased various different type of .22 ammynition including ELEY .22 LR bullets, sime Winchester, and Remmingtin .22 cartridges, all if which was present at the scene in addition to the batch of Eley .22 subsonic ammunirion sold to Ralph Bamber...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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AP purchased various different type of .22 ammynition including ELEY .22 LR bullets, sime Winchester, and Remmingtin .22 cartridges, all if which was present at the scene in addition to the batch of Eley .22 subsonic ammunirion sold to Ralph Bamber...

Post evidence that AP purchased Eley ammunition- I posted evidence he didn't even know Eley ammunition is English he assumed it was German Like the Anschutz.  You simply made this claim up.

Post evidence he purchased Remington ammunition- the ammunition he owned when he turned his weapon over to police for inspection was made by Winchester. You simply made this claim up.

Post evidence that Remington and Winchester cartridges were present at the murder scene.  Fletcher found no such evidence nor did anyone else you simply made the claim up.

The evidence is clear- the ammunition used for the murders was the Eley ammunition Nevill purchased.  That is what the evidence establishes and you have nothing to prove otherwise so rely on the farce that Nevill didn't purchase 22LR ammunition but rather some different size 22 ammunition that the rifle he purchased didn't use.  Your games fall flat. 
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Offline mike tesko

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AP purchased different types of .22 ammunition between 1980 and the beginning of August 1985 - confirmed by entries recorded on his firearms certificate. COLP did not seize his Bruno .22 bolt action rifle, parker hale sound moderator, and two ammunition magazines (one 10 shot, one a 5 shot) until 1991, some six years after the shootings. Not to be overlooked is that during those interim six years AP had regularly cleaned the inside of the barrel with tools which over a period of time changed the internal surface of the rifles barrel...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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AP purchased different types of .22 ammunition between 1980 and the beginning of August 1985 - confirmed by entries recorded on his firearms certificate. COLP did not seize his Bruno .22 bolt action rifle, parker hale sound moderator, and two ammunition magazines (one 10 shot, one a 5 shot) until 1991, some six years after the shootings. Not to be overlooked is that during those interim six years AP had regularly cleaned the inside of the barrel with tools which over a period of time changed the internal surface of the rifles barrel...

Are you claiming you have a copy of AP's firearms certificate that he had at the time of the murders?  You can't know what ammunition was listed on it unless you have a copy of such.

Basically I just set a trap for you.  You have the choice of admitting you have not seen it and thus simply are making up what is on it though you have no idea or can lie and say you have a copy and then I can prove you are full of crap because the authorities never obtained such and thus can't have provided a copy of such to Jeremy and thus you can't have found it in Jeremy's documents.

Hint AP was unable to provide a copy to COLP because he no longer had the same certificate by the time of the COLP interview. He provided COLP his new certificate.



 
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Offline mike tesko

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You are just making yourself look like a fool.  The Anschutz was chambered in 22LR.  While he didn't write 22LR on the documentation but rather simply wrote "22" he meant 22LR.  It is variously called "22LR", "22RF", "22 rimfire", and "22".  It all means the same thing.  He wrote simply "22" but meant 22LR by it.

(1) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle#Cartridge_length

Cartridge length

A .22 short, .22 LR, .22 Winchester Magnum, and a .22 Hornet
The .22 LR uses a straight-walled case. Depending upon the type and the feed mechanism employed, a firearm which is chambered for .22 LR may also be able to safely chamber and fire the following shorter rimfire cartridges:

.22 BB, in cap, short, or long lengths
.22 CB, in cap, short, long, and long rifle lengths
.22 short
.22 long

The .22 long rifle may also be used in firearms chambered for the obsolete .22 Extra Long.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 12:25:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Are you claiming you have a copy of AP's firearms certificate that he had at the time of the murders?  You can't know what ammunition was listed on it unless you have a copy of such.

Basically I just set a trap for you.  You have the choice of admitting you have not seen it and thus simply are making up what is on it though you have no idea or can lie and say you have a copy and then I can prove you are full of crap because the authorities never obtained such and thus can't have provided a copy of such to Jeremy and thus you can't have found it in Jeremy's documents.

Hint AP was unable to provide a copy to COLP because he no longer had the same certificate by the time of the COLP interview. He provided COLP his new certificate.

You had better stop saying that I make things up, because I don't, that's your own way of doing things...

Of course I have got a copy of AP's firearms certificate, detailing all the ammunition he purchased from 1980, until 1991, it was copied into the case file as a result of the COLP investigation, when they seized his Bruno rifle, 17 baffled parker hale silencer, and two ammunition magazines, one 10 shot, the other a 5 shot...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Seizing AP's Bruno rifle in 1991, and test firing it, is a different proposition to if the police back in August 1985 had test fired it and made comparisons to the marks made on 10 unlinked rounds associated with the shootings not matched to the anshuzt rifle...

The lining of the barrel of the bruno rifle would have been dramatically different six years after the event, through general wear and tear, fine tool marks used in a cleaning process, or clogged up recesses of the rifling lands and grooves through poor maintenance over a lengthy period of time...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 12:55:AM by mike tesko »
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Offline mike tesko

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(1) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle#Usage

Muzzle velocity (nominal)

40-grain (2.6 g) lead: 1,082 ft/s (330 m/s) .22 LR subsonic
36-grain (2.3 g) copper plated lead: 1,328 ft/s (405 m/s) .22 LR high velocity

Note: actual velocities are dependent on many factors, such as barrel length of a given firearm and manufacturer of a given batch of ammunition, and will vary widely in practice. The above velocities are typical.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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You had better stop saying that I make things up, because I don't, that's your own way of doing things...

Of course I have got a copy of AP's firearms certificate, detailing all the ammunition he purchased from 1980, until 1991, it was copied into the case file as a result of the COLP investigation, when they seized his Bruno rifle, 17 baffled parker hale silencer, and two ammunition magazines, one 10 shot, the other a 5 shot...

Add to this collection of available ammunition magazines at AP's and Sheila Caffells disposal on the night of the shootings the 10 shot magazine of the anshuzt rifle, and hey presto, it produces the exact number of preloaded bullets capable of inflicting 24 of the 25 rounds used to kill the victims - now, that's some coincidence, don't you agree?
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Offline mike tesko

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How odd that Essex police have not disclosed any close up photographs of every cartridge case in situ at the crime scene so that each of the original 25 cartridges can be accurately identified...
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Offline mike tesko

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(1) - http://www.channel4.com/news/jeremy-bamber-new-evidence-will-set-me-free

Exclusive: Jeremy Bamber, who was sentenced to life in 1986 for the murder of five of his family members, has claimed that previously-unseen police photographs prove he was not given a fair trial.

Jeremy Bamber

Bamber, 50, has always protested his innocence, claiming that his sister Sheila, who had paranoid schizophrenia, used a rifle to kill her adoptive parents, Nevill and June, and her six-year-old twin sons, Daniel and Nicholas, before shooting herself in the remote Essex farmhouse. The Bamber murder case is one of the most notorious criminal cases in modern British history. Bamber’s legal team plan to set out a series of apparent inconsistencies in the case presented to the original trial court:

• Photographs which his lawyers allege show that the gun was moved

• One police officer described having no memory of the gun being at the crime scene

• Inconsistencies in the blood-spatter evidence

• X-rays revealing bullets which were presented whole at trial had broken up on impact

Bamber's legal team claim that photos of Sheila, known as Bambi - which show the murder weapon, a rifle, positioned in different places on her body - point to evidence-tampering and are therefore incompatible with the prosecution's case. They add that the inconsistencies the photographs depict appear to be supported by the records of police officers who attended the scene of the crime. One detective raised concerns after seeing the pictures, describing having no recollection of seeing the rifle at all when he was at the scene.

The White House Farm murders

The White House Farm murders became among the most infamous multiple murders of a generation, because they bore all the hallmarks of a detective crime novel: a brutal massacre behind locked doors, a mentally-unstable model with a fanatical religious streak, a suave and conniving son, and his jilted lover who informed on him to police a month later. When police arrived at the scene, they thought the killings pointed to a murder/suicide, but three days later, one of Bamber’s cousins found a silencer in a box in the gun cupboard and presented it to police.

The silencer had a speck of blood on it, which a scientist concluded had come from Sheila, although doubts have since been raised about the authenticity of the tests. Police claimed that it would not have been possible for Sheila to shoot herself and then return the silencer to the cupboard.

About a month after the murders, Bamber broke up with his girlfriend, Julie Mugford, after she discovered that he had had sex with her best friend. Miss Mugford went to police the next day and told officers that Jeremy had been planning the murders for some time and called her on the night of the killings, saying: "Tonight’s the night."

The trial

At Bamber's trial - at Chelmsford Crown Court in October 1986 - he was convicted on a 10-2 majority verdict. The jury was asked to decide whether he had murdered his family to inherit an estate worth around £500,000 (£1m in today’s money) or whether schizophrenic Sheila Caffell carried out the massacre after her parents suggested that her children should be taken into foster care.

The jury decided Sheila could not have killed her family before turning the gun on herself, and that it was Bamber who committed the crimes and re-staged the scene to appear like a murder/suicide.

But Channel 4 News has seen for the first time a series of police pictures showing a .22 Anschutz semi-automatic rifle, the murder weapon, seemingly resting in different positions on Sheila’s body and also placed around the bedroom where she was found dead. Bamber’s legal team argue that because the trial jury convicted him on grounds that he had re-staged the crime scene, these photos prove he was not given a fair trial. They claim that, at the least, the pictures cast doubt on part of the prosecution case and appear to expose significant inconsistencies in the evidence from 7 August 1985.

Main bedroom/staircase

The rifle rests above and below Sheila's neckline in different close-up images. In wide shots of the room, the gun appears propped up against a window and is then missing in another. Essex police officers told the trial jury that the gun on her body was not moved in the aftermath of the crime and only made safe at 11.10am.

But Bamber's defence team argues that all of the police pictures photographed in the room were taken at least 50 minutes before then. A blown-up image of one of the pictures of the master bedroom of the farmhouse, in which the bodies of June and Sheila were found, shows a clock on the bedside table reading 10.20am, indicating that the gun could have been moved during the photographing sessions: almost an hour before police testified it had been.

'No recollection of gun'

Various logs of different police officers at the scene suggest incongruous accounts of the positioning of Sheila's body and also where the gun lay in relation to her. One police officer raised concerns that, after viewing the photos, Sheila's body was in a different position from when he saw her, before 8.45am.

"Photo of Sheila not in same position as when I saw it," his notes reads. "Head too close to bedside table. Not sure about angle of head but something not right. No recollection of gun. Was level with her waist 12-18in away."

Another officer, on first inspecting the room at 9.30am, half an hour before the photographer arrived in the room, noted: "Daughter with .22 rifle by her right side."

Dr Herbert Leon MacDonell, director of the New-York based Laboratory for Forensic Science, studied the photographs for the defence team and concluded that the pattern of blood spatter suggested movement of the body.

Dr MacDonell, who testified in the OJ Simpson murder case and was involved in the investigations into the assassinations of US Senator Robert F Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr, told Channel 4 News: "From the bloodstain patterns the victim's arms must have been moved.

"Bloodstains on the floor showed that other objects were also moved. I concluded that it had to have been murder because of the two shots under her chin. (But) Some time later I learned that the pathologists concluded that she could have fired both shots so I now believe it could have been suicide as well."

Peter Sutherst, a photographic expert, adviser to crime scene officers, and on the UK register of expert witnesses, examined around 400 of the previously-undisclosed negatives.

He told Channel 4 News: "Based on knowledge of how roll films are put together with frame numbers in sequence, the pictures of Sheila with the rifle on her were taken early on in the photographing process.

"(The officer) started in the kitchen first, then to the bedroom Sheila was found in and then to several other rooms afterwards.

"I think those pictures were taken between 10.20 and 10.45. It is extremely unlikely they were taken after that."

Mr Sutherst added that scores of negatives from the film roll remained undisclosed.

Hurd: 'Errors were made'

In 1989, the then Home Secretary Douglas Hurd ordered a tightening of procedures for police investigations following the murders. He said that the operation had been riddled with errors.

"First, the senior investigating officer (DCI 'Taff' Jones), having assessed the scene of the crime and considered the information provided by Jeremy Bamber, wrongly concluded that Sheila Caffell had taken her own life and shooting her parents and twin sons," he said.

"In consequence of this error of judgement, he did not follow normal procedures of potential murder cases, and was reluctant to take account of information which challenged his original assessment.

"Secondly, there was inadequate supervision of the senior investigating officer to ensure that existing force practices were observed and that the inquiries took account of the information coming to light."

Catalogue of new evidence

The discovery of the photographs is the latest in a catalogue of around 100,000 pages Bamber has accessed from his prison cell in Full Sutton, Yorkshire, via the Freedom of Information Act and the Data Protection Act.

He and his legal team – headed by lawyer Barry Woods – have also uncovered the following evidence which they hope could overturn his conviction:

• The pictures of Sheila’s body also show wet blood flowing from Sheila’s wounds, according to the defence. Bamber’s team say that experts have told them that because the blood had not coagulated at the time of photographing at 10.30am, she could have been killed no earlier than 7am. Bamber had been with police officers since about 3am.

Bullet

• An X-Ray of Sheila's neck, which shows one bullet fragmented into 14 pieces and a second bullet intact in her brain. However, police showed the court two unbroken bullets at the trial.

Police log

• Police logs showing some of the officers who first arrived at the farmhouse reporting that there were two bodies, a male and a female, dead in the kitchen, while they were in the presence of Bamber. The final report stated that only the male body - that of Bamber's father Nevill - was found in the kitchen, with the other bodies in four upstairs rooms. Bamber's supporters argue that the female body was Sheila’s, and she had gone upstairs to kill herself between the time of the log entry and some time after police entered the house, several hours later.

• Another police log in which an officer reports that officers were in conversation with someone inside the farmhouse upon their arrival.

Phone log

• Two "lost" police logs, which Bamber’s defence team claim show that Nevill called police at 3.26am saying his daughter had "gone berserk" and "got hold of one of my guns". The record is almost identical to another phone log timed at 3.36am in which Bamber made from his home in Goldhanger, three-and-a-half miles away from the farm.

• Mr Sutherst has also found that scratch marks the prosecution said had been caused by Bamber – in a tussle between him and his father - on the night of the killings might have actually been made a month later. After scrutinising photographs taken on the day of the murders, he found no indication of the scratch marks, said to have been made by the silencer. Mr Sutherst then found that the photograph of the scratches used in Bamber's trial was taken on 10 September, over a month after the murders.

Forensic officers established that Sheila could not have shot herself and return the silencer to the cupboard.Mr Sutherst told Channel 4 News: "There is no doubt that marks made by the silencer, which were visible a month later, were not present on the day of the killings. In the photos taken on the day of the crimes, I could see no scratches and no residue of paint which invariably would have been there if scratches were made."

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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You had better stop saying that I make things up, because I don't, that's your own way of doing things...

Of course I have got a copy of AP's firearms certificate, detailing all the ammunition he purchased from 1980, until 1991, it was copied into the case file as a result of the COLP investigation, when they seized his Bruno rifle, 17 baffled parker hale silencer, and two ammunition magazines, one 10 shot, the other a 5 shot...

This is a perfect example of how you are as foolish as dishonest because I blurted out why this was a trick question and how we would easily see you are lying if you decide to lie and claim you have a copy of his 1980 certificate.  Despite such you barreled full speed ahead like sheep over a cliff.

AP had to turn in his 1980 certificate and receive a new one prior to the COLP investigation.  He provided the COLP investigators a copy of his new certificate that was all they could get a hold of.  Since COLP didn't have a copy of his 1980 certificate they can't have provided a copy to the defense and thus you can't have found such in Jeremy's papers.

This is a prime example of the point I made that you don't even put any effort into your lies anymore you just keep insulting our intelligence.     

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Offline mike tesko

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This is a perfect example of how you are as foolish as dishonest because I blurted out why this was a trick question and how we would easily see you are lying if you decide to lie and claim you have a copy of his 1980 certificate.  Despite such you barreled full speed ahead like sheep over a cliff.

AP had to turn in his 1980 certificate and receive a new one prior to the COLP investigation.  He provided the COLP investigators a copy of his new certificate that was all they could get a hold of.  Since COLP didn't have a copy of his 1980 certificate they can't have provided a copy to the defense and thus you can't have found such in Jeremy's papers.

This is a prime example of the point I made that you don't even put any effort into your lies anymore you just keep insulting our intelligence.   

What an absolute baffoon you are, of course I have copies of both parts, what good would AP's firearms certificate be to the COLP investigators looking into whether or not AP's rifle, silencer and ammunition was used in the August 1985 shootings - your thicker than I thought you are. You are truly a bumbling baffoon who is basically full of shit. Now, fuck off and entertain yourself somewhere else, you abnoxious horrible piece of cow dung. You have only got half a brain, haven't you ever got anything useful or constructive to say, except the drivel that you kept releasing from that dishonest gob of yours. What a fucking idiot you are, pathetic abnoxious pea brain scumbag...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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(1) - http://www.channel4.com/news/jeremy-bamber-new-evidence-will-set-me-free

Exclusive: Jeremy Bamber, who was sentenced to life in 1986 for the murder of five of his family members, has claimed that previously-unseen police photographs prove he was not given a fair trial.

Jeremy Bamber

Bamber, 50, has always protested his innocence, claiming that his sister Sheila, who had paranoid schizophrenia, used a rifle to kill her adoptive parents, Nevill and June, and her six-year-old twin sons, Daniel and Nicholas, before shooting herself in the remote Essex farmhouse. The Bamber murder case is one of the most notorious criminal cases in modern British history. Bamber’s legal team plan to set out a series of apparent inconsistencies in the case presented to the original trial court:

• Photographs which his lawyers allege show that the gun was moved

The gun could not be left on her forever, it had to be moved.  A photo was taken showing it on her body and then another photo was taken without in on her body in order to show the blood on her gown which her hand had left.  But for that blood on her gown they would not have needed any without the gun on her.

It is not suspicious that they removed the gun and took a photo of the blood nor is it in any way supportive of Jeremy's innocence.



• One police officer described having no memory of the gun being at the crime scene

Big deal Adas was unable in 1991 to recall what he had seen anymore because so many years passed and his recollection was fuzzy.  That simply means we have to rely on the photos and testimony of those who did remember.

• Inconsistencies in the blood-spatter evidence

There wasn't any inconsistency.

• X-rays revealing bullets which were presented whole at trial had broken up on impact

This is sheer nonsense the bullets presented at trial matched what Vanezis pulled out of them.  This includes PV/20 which we have a photo of which quite clearly matches the xray.  Only one bullet (from Nicholas) was shattered into pieces too small for any large fragment to be recovered and no fragment was thus produced at trial from such bullet since nothing was collected.

Bamber's legal team claim that photos of Sheila, known as Bambi - which show the murder weapon, a rifle, positioned in different places on her body - point to evidence-tampering and are therefore incompatible with the prosecution's case. They add that the inconsistencies the photographs depict appear to be supported by the records of police officers who attended the scene of the crime. One detective raised concerns after seeing the pictures, describing having no recollection of seeing the rifle at all when he was at the scene.

The gun being moved doesn't in any way help Jeremy.  A dozen police saw the gun on her body most of them senior officers- only 3 were from the raid team.  Adams not being able to remember whether it was on her is totally meaningless. The gun was clearly on her body and then moved after as it well had to be. I have yet to see a case where a body is left as is for days. The claims the gun should never have been moved are simply stupid.  The person who declared her dead saw the gun on her before the photos were taken of the gun on her as were so many other police.  Her hand int he photo with the gun on her is right over the blood on her gown which helps confirm that is where her hand rested while her blood was still wet because that blood was transferred from her wrist.   Police had no reason to falsely pretend they found the gun on her body nor is there any evidence that suggest they found it elsewhere and placed it there for the photos then had a dozen police lie about it.  Such suggestions are absurd and don't help Jeremy at all.


The White House Farm murders

The White House Farm murders became among the most infamous multiple murders of a generation, because they bore all the hallmarks of a detective crime novel: a brutal massacre behind locked doors, a mentally-unstable model with a fanatical religious streak, a suave and conniving son, and his jilted lover who informed on him to police a month later. When police arrived at the scene, they thought the killings pointed to a murder/suicide, but three days later, one of Bamber’s cousins found a silencer in a box in the gun cupboard and presented it to police.

The silencer had a speck of blood on it, which a scientist concluded had come from Sheila, although doubts have since been raised about the authenticity of the tests. Police claimed that it would not have been possible for Sheila to shoot herself and then return the silencer to the cupboard.

The doubts are form Jeremy supporters who raised nothing valid to to question the blood evidence just refusal to face the evidence because of a desire to believe Jeremy innocent no matter what.

About a month after the murders, Bamber broke up with his girlfriend, Julie Mugford, after she discovered that he had had sex with her best friend. Miss Mugford went to police the next day and told officers that Jeremy had been planning the murders for some time and called her on the night of the killings, saying: "Tonight’s the night."

Nonsense, their breakup was coming a long time and it wasn't over him cheating on her with a woman let alone her best friend. 


The trial

At Bamber's trial - at Chelmsford Crown Court in October 1986 - he was convicted on a 10-2 majority verdict. The jury was asked to decide whether he had murdered his family to inherit an estate worth around £500,000 (£1m in today’s money) or whether schizophrenic Sheila Caffell carried out the massacre after her parents suggested that her children should be taken into foster care.

The jury decided Sheila could not have killed her family before turning the gun on herself, and that it was Bamber who committed the crimes and re-staged the scene to appear like a murder/suicide.

But Channel 4 News has seen for the first time a series of police pictures showing a .22 Anschutz semi-automatic rifle, the murder weapon, seemingly resting in different positions on Sheila’s body and also placed around the bedroom where she was found dead. Bamber’s legal team argue that because the trial jury convicted him on grounds that he had re-staged the crime scene, these photos prove he was not given a fair trial. They claim that, at the least, the pictures cast doubt on part of the prosecution case and appear to expose significant inconsistencies in the evidence from 7 August 1985.

Main bedroom/staircase

The rifle rests above and below Sheila's neckline in different close-up images. In wide shots of the room, the gun appears propped up against a window and is then missing in another. Essex police officers told the trial jury that the gun on her body was not moved in the aftermath of the crime and only made safe at 11.10am.

The gun was removed from her body and placed against the wall, big deal.  It had to be removed to take the photo of the blood on her gown and was then placed against a wall.  This doesn't in any way hurt the case against Jeremy. There is no legal significance to this at all.


But Bamber's defence team argues that all of the police pictures photographed in the room were taken at least 50 minutes before then. A blown-up image of one of the pictures of the master bedroom of the farmhouse, in which the bodies of June and Sheila were found, shows a clock on the bedside table reading 10.20am, indicating that the gun could have been moved during the photographing sessions: almost an hour before police testified it had been.

Actually the gun was made safe early on before the crime scene photos were taken.  In any event, the defense has no ability to prove the clock photos were taken the same time as any of the photos of Sheila.  In any event it makes no difference at all if they put the gun back and took more photos again at that point.  It has no legal bearing on the case at all.  A dozen police including the one who declared her dead said the rifle was on her, the crime scene officers say they took photos of it on her before removing it to take photos of the blood on her gown and there is nothing at all to refute this.  That they moved it after is not surprising and doesn't in any way undercut the testimony that the gun was on her.  None of this BS could make it past the CCRC it simply is bull crap to try to fool the public.

   
'No recollection of gun'

Various logs of different police officers at the scene suggest incongruous accounts of the positioning of Sheila's body and also where the gun lay in relation to her. 

No logs suggest different accounts.


One police officer raised concerns that, after viewing the photos, Sheila's body was in a different position from when he saw her, before 8.45am.

"Photo of Sheila not in same position as when I saw it," his notes reads. "Head too close to bedside table. Not sure about angle of head but something not right. No recollection of gun. Was level with her waist 12-18in away."

Again this is Adas who who could not even remember if the gun was on her or not.  He was not one of the raid team members and was only in the house a short time he didn't see her body long.  Little wonder that he was unable to remember much.  Since he didn't remember much his faulty memory is worthless and we have to go by the memory of the dozen officer who could remember and the testimony of those who took the photos.

Another officer, on first inspecting the room at 9.30am, half an hour before the photographer arrived in the room, noted: "Daughter with .22 rifle by her right side."

The author of this sentence DI Miller said his writing was sloppy and that the gun was on her body.

Dr Herbert Leon MacDonell, director of the New-York based Laboratory for Forensic Science, studied the photographs for the defence team and concluded that the pattern of blood spatter suggested movement of the body.

Dr MacDonell, who testified in the OJ Simpson murder case and was involved in the investigations into the assassinations of US Senator Robert F Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr, told Channel 4 News: "From the bloodstain patterns the victim's arms must have been moved.

He said her body was moved while the blood was still wet and thus he could say for sure she didn't kill herself but rather someone else killed her and moved her.  Far from this helping Jeremy and hurting police it implicates Jeremy.

"Bloodstains on the floor showed that other objects were also moved. I concluded that it had to have been murder because of the two shots under her chin. (But) Some time later I learned that the pathologists concluded that she could have fired both shots so I now believe it could have been suicide as well."

The Bible is the object in question and it was moved after she was dead while the blood was still wet so far from helping establish suicide it helps establish murder.

In the meantime the evidence that her body was moved after she was dead but while her blood was still wet still proves murder as well. He simply decided to ignore such and support the defense  after they gave him more money though he could not explain away the evidence he relied upon.


Peter Sutherst, a photographic expert, adviser to crime scene officers, and on the UK register of expert witnesses, examined around 400 of the previously-undisclosed negatives.

He told Channel 4 News: "Based on knowledge of how roll films are put together with frame numbers in sequence, the pictures of Sheila with the rifle on her were taken early on in the photographing process.

"(The officer) started in the kitchen first, then to the bedroom Sheila was found in and then to several other rooms afterwards.

"I think those pictures were taken between 10.20 and 10.45. It is extremely unlikely they were taken after that."

Mr Sutherst added that scores of negatives from the film roll remained undisclosed.

Hurd: 'Errors were made'

In 1989, the then Home Secretary Douglas Hurd ordered a tightening of procedures for police investigations following the murders. He said that the operation had been riddled with errors.

"First, the senior investigating officer (DCI 'Taff' Jones), having assessed the scene of the crime and considered the information provided by Jeremy Bamber, wrongly concluded that Sheila Caffell had taken her own life and shooting her parents and twin sons," he said.

"In consequence of this error of judgement, he did not follow normal procedures of potential murder cases, and was reluctant to take account of information which challenged his original assessment.

"Secondly, there was inadequate supervision of the senior investigating officer to ensure that existing force practices were observed and that the inquiries took account of the information coming to light."

Catalogue of new evidence

The discovery of the photographs is the latest in a catalogue of around 100,000 pages Bamber has accessed from his prison cell in Full Sutton, Yorkshire, via the Freedom of Information Act and the Data Protection Act.

• Mr Sutherst has also found that scratch marks the prosecution said had been caused by Bamber – in a tussle between him and his father - on the night of the killings might have actually been made a month later. After scrutinising photographs taken on the day of the murders, he found no indication of the scratch marks, said to have been made by the silencer. Mr Sutherst then found that the photograph of the scratches used in Bamber's trial was taken on 10 September, over a month after the murders.

Forensic officers established that Sheila could not have shot herself and return the silencer to the cupboard.Mr Sutherst told Channel 4 News: "There is no doubt that marks made by the silencer, which were visible a month later, were not present on the day of the killings. In the photos taken on the day of the crimes, I could see no scratches and no residue of paint which invariably would have been there if scratches were made."

Sutherst's claims have been rejected as junk science.  There is no way to blow up the photos enough using current science so as to be able to tell if the mantle was marked up and especially not to be able to see specks on the floor near the mantle.  He could not establish his claims to be scientifically reliable so none of his nonsense could be used in court.

He and his legal team – headed by lawyer Barry Woods – have also uncovered the following evidence which they hope could overturn his conviction:

• The pictures of Sheila’s body also show wet blood flowing from Sheila’s wounds, according to the defence. Bamber’s team say that experts have told them that because the blood had not coagulated at the time of photographing at 10.30am, she could have been killed no earlier than 7am. Bamber had been with police officers since about 3am.

There are no photos showing wet blood and the doctor who declared her dead at 8:45Am said the blood was dry thus confirming the claims of the officers who said she had dry blood on her. 


Bullet

• An X-Ray of Sheila's neck, which shows one bullet fragmented into 14 pieces and a second bullet intact in her brain. However, police showed the court two unbroken bullets at the trial.

The court wasn't shown unbroken bullets. They were shown large fragment from her brain like the xray showed and fragment matching the Xray of the largest portion of PV/20 (the one you claim was broken into 14 pieces):





Police log

• Police logs showing some of the officers who first arrived at the farmhouse reporting that there were two bodies, a male and a female, dead in the kitchen, while they were in the presence of Bamber. The final report stated that only the male body - that of Bamber's father Nevill - was found in the kitchen, with the other bodies in four upstairs rooms. Bamber's supporters argue that the female body was Sheila’s, and she had gone upstairs to kill herself between the time of the log entry and some time after police entered the house, several hours later.

Collins looked in the window before entering and saw a body in the kitchen which he thought was an old woman. This was relayed to the HQ Information room.  Upon entering they discovered it was Nevill not June like they had though.  Upon hearing about Nevill the radio operator incorrectly recorded a second body not realizing it was the same one.  Those at the scene who actually entered the house all say there was only 1 body in the kitchen and that it was Nevill.  Jeremy supporters use this error from the person keeping to log to try pretending there was another body in the kitchen and are not even consistent because they pretend the old woman could have been Sheila. 


• Another police log in which an officer reports that officers were in conversation with someone inside the farmhouse upon their arrival.

The log actually says police tried to speak with those in the house by communicating to them through a megaphone but no one in the house responded.


Phone log

• Two "lost" police logs, which Bamber’s defence team claim show that Nevill called police at 3.26am saying his daughter had "gone berserk" and "got hold of one of my guns". The record is almost identical to another phone log timed at 3.36am in which Bamber made from his home in Goldhanger, three-and-a-half miles away from the farm.

Logs that were trial exhibits were lost?  The defense discussed them at trial even. The claim the logs reflect a call from Nevill is sheer nonsense.  It need not evne be addressed because it was already demolished so many times here in the past.  All that need be said is neither log even remotely hints at a call from Nevill there is simply a wild allegation made that Nevill called Bonnett and it was covered up by pretending West called Bonnett.  There is no evidence to prove this allegation and quite clearly it is nonsense.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 04:01:AM by scipio_usmc »
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