13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...

[scipio_usmc]

He did get confused though- in the trial twice he mentions that the rifle was usually left at WHF - and does not mention removing it until 1991 where he contradicts what he says at trial . BTW I found the post that look out was referring to where NGB said you were getting confused about military and civilian rifles - I think she misunderstood it but she was not deliberately telling lies as you said 

He was asked if he sometimes had his rifle with him when he visited. He replied very often I left it he didn't say he usually left it and this is the only time in his testimony he said such.

In the meantime the next question government the weapons that were established as being at WHF at the time of the murders.  The whole reason the rifle was discussed separately was because it was not among them.  The jury heard that other weapons of his had been at WHF at the time of the murders but his rifle was not among them.  You have to look at everything in context.  He may have made a mistake in saying very often he left it he may have said very often to the question of whether he often had it with him and then added he left it.  It is hard to tell such things from a transcript.  People will say different things not just give a sentence that is well designed like when they write. 

The prosecution was asking about his rifle because 10 they wanted to establish Jeremy used it and was a proficient shot; 2) when looking for his rifle he found the Anschutz and that is what they really cared about they wanted him to testify about how the Anschutz was in the closet with the scope and moderator attached.

In order to establish the rifle was there at the time of the murders people would have to have testified to such effect you can't infer.   He would have been specifically asked and other witnesses would have to have established what became of it.  We know that Jeremy said he didn't see it at WHF after AP's last visit, the Boutflours and Eatons said they didn't find it there when they cleaned up and took away all the firearms related materials and police didn't find it there so...

Mike has zero basis to suggest his rifle was there and his suggestion that it was there and that police took the moderator from his weapon but left the one from the Anschutz is absurd.

The police go in the closet take out all the gun cases and such, open up AP's rifle case, and decide to take that moderator though it clearly belongs to AP's rifle but leave the moderator belonging to the Anschutz?  Why would they do such it is a stupid claim and saying Taff Jones refused to log it into evidence and simply kept it on his desk for a month is even more absurd.

If AP had left his rifle there and the family gave it back to him without telling police and lied to police when they said it wasn't there then he would have complained about his missing moderator.

This is a perfect example of illogical allegations being made up. It is bad enough to make up allegations that have zero foundation but if you are going to make up allegations at least make up something that makes sense.

[scipio_usmc]

Guess none of us can change the habits of a life time, Scipio

We can if we set our minds to it but I am too lazy to change my habit in the issue at bar.

[Jan]

in the other document it says - I do not leave the bolt at whitehouse farm . I do leave the rifle at whf

that is from his testimony

[scipio_usmc]

in the other document it says - I do not leave the bolt at whitehouse farm . I do leave the rifle at whf

that is from his testimony

The question asked was: "when you leave your firearms at the house, do you do anything with the bolts?"

He didn't say he always leaves the rifle, when he leaves the rifle he takes the bolt was his answer. 

These were questions were asked after it was already established that only his shotguns were at WHF at the time of the murders.  There was previous testimony regarding which weapons of his had been left at WHF and recovered there after the murders.

This is why things can't be looked at in isolation.  You have to consider the full context including the evidence previously presented and prior claims made. 

As I said before it is possible he filled out a statement where he was asked specifically if he took his gun home and naturally if it existed Mike would not show it to us.

It is possible the police didn't bother to have him put such in a statement simply because there was no need since his gun wasn't found there by the family.

Neither side felt the need to clarify the issue at trial during his testimony since no claim was made that his gun had been recovered there after the murders.

The COLP statement is the first time he was asked to detail such in writing and that was because of allegations made to COLP that his gun/moderator was used.  The raising of the allegations is what required addressing the claims expressly.  Prior to that there was no need to do so.

 

[mike tesko]

I post the following documention for the purpose of confirming that Ralph Bamber was never sold, and never purchased any of the Eley .22LR from Radcliffe the gun dealor, as matching the Eley .22LR cartridge cases referred to by Fletcher in his witness statement. Ralph Bamber purchased 500 rounds of ELEY subsonic ammunition, not 500 rounds of ELEY .22LR ammunition, as denoted in the gun dealers Firearms register, and Ralph Bambers firearms certificate...

[mike tesko]

So, now we know that ammunition belonging to someone else was used in the shooting of the family, and that none of the 500 rounds of .22 subsonic ammunition purchased by Ralph Bamber, or sold to him was used in the shootings at all, so now it becomes clear why Essex police were in such a hurry to destroy the batch of crime scene ammunition, because they knew about this very serious discrepancy from the outset...

[scipio_usmc]

So, now we know that ammunition belonging to someone else was used in the shooting of the family, and that none of the 500 rounds of .22 subsonic ammunition purchased by Ralph Bamber, or sold to him was used in the shootings at all, so now it becomes clear why Essex police were in such a hurry to destroy the batch of crime scene ammunition, because they knew about this very serious discrepancy from the outset...

The 22 Subsonic he recorded is a variety of 22LR ammunition.  Your whole premise is built upon 2 lies:

1) the lie that the 22 Subsonic sold was not a 22LR cartridge (which is nonsense because the gun sold to Nevill was chambered in 22LR os that is what he would have purchased not 22 short or some other 22 caliber plus the remaining 300 plus unfired cartridges were all 22LR not some other caliber that would have been worthless to the family;

2) the lie that Fletcher determined the bullets and cases used in the murders were something other than those test fired though he states they were identical to those test fired. 

Your lies are worthless.

[mike tesko]

There is no evidence at all that Ralph Bamber purchased, or was sold by Radcliffe the gun dealer, any ELEY .22LR ammunition on the 30th November 1984, that is the lie that the police, their ballistics expert, Fletcher, and evry other tom dick and Harry who want Bamber to be guilty have sought to rely upon to justify the correctness of the convictions for 5 counts of murder, but as I have demonstrated with use of legal framework documentation governing the sale and possession of ammunition, that Ralph Bamber was sold and purchased a different type of ELEY .22 subsonic ammunition - the game is up I am afraid, the deception which has so far kept Jeremy Bamber in prison for the last 30 years is exposed as a lie, do you not agree?

[mike tesko]

At trial, Judge Drake in his summing up speech to the jury, told them that they should not concern themselves with involvement of any third party in the killings, but that they had to decide who the killer was between Sheila, or Jeremy. He reminded them that the killer could only be either one of them. But this recent discovery regarding use of a different type of ELEY .22LR ammunition in the shootings, significantly contradict those directions given to the jury by the judge. We can now for the very first time say with absolute confidence that there was a third party involvement in the shootings, a fact which serves to affect the aforementioned direction given to the jury at such a critical point in the trial...

[scipio_usmc]

There is no evidence at all that Ralph Bamber purchased, or was sold by Radcliffe the gun dealer, any ELEY .22LR ammunition on the 30th November 1984, that is the lie that the police, their ballistics expert, Fletcher, and evry other tom dick and Harry who want Bamber to be guilty have sought to rely upon to justify the correctness of the convictions for 5 counts of murder, but as I have demonstrated with use of legal framework documentation governing the sale and possession of ammunition, that Ralph Bamber was sold and purchased a different type of ELEY .22 subsonic ammunition - the game is up I am afraid, the deception which has so far kept Jeremy Bamber in prison for the last 30 years is exposed as a lie, do you not agree?

You are just making yourself look like a fool.  The Anschutz was chambered in 22LR.  While he didn't write 22LR on the documentation but rather simply wrote "22" he meant 22LR.  It is variously called "22LR", "22RF", "22 rimfire", and "22".  It all means the same thing.  He wrote simply "22" but meant 22LR by it.

This is what he bought:

 

It says 22 RF long rifle on it.  That means 22 rimfire long rifle.  22LR is short for "22 long rifle".

This is the package on this site which you claim was used for testing because this is the version of the ammo Eley was producing at the time of the testing:



It says the same thing on it.  In 2008 they changed their packaging to this:



Again it says long rifle.

You are playing worthless games that simply further undermine your credibility.

[scipio_usmc]

At trial, Judge Drake in his summing up speech to the jury, told them that they should not concern themselves with involvement of any third party in the killings, but that they had to decide who the killer was between Sheila, or Jeremy. He reminded them that the killer could only be either one of them. But this recent discovery regarding use of a different type of ELEY .22LR ammunition in the shootings, significantly contradict those directions given to the jury by the judge. We can now for the very first time say with absolute confidence that there was a third party involvement in the shootings, a fact which serves to affect the aforementioned direction given to the jury at such a critical point in the trial...

There was no recent discovery of other ammo used you simply made the claim up.

[mike tesko]

There is now considerable doubt that that any of the ELEY .22 subsonic ammunition purchased by Ralph Bamber on 30th November 1984, was even fired via the anshuzt rifle, since according to skippy it was not chambered to fire the type of ammunition bought and sold by Radcliffe to Ralph Bamber...

I am ever so grateful for all the help that Skippy has provided to help me resolve this delicate matter...

[mike tesko]

The more I look into these circumstances the greater I am convinced of the reason why there was the earlier test fire of the anshuzt rifle in this case, which the police and ballistics expert have sought to pretend never took place...

[scipio_usmc]

There is now considerable doubt that that any of the ELEY .22 subsonic ammunition purchased by Ralph Bamber on 30th November 1984, was even fired via the anshuzt rifle, since according to skippy it was not chambered to fire the type of ammunition bought and sold by Radcliffe to Ralph Bamber...

I am ever so grateful for all the help that Skippy has provided to help me resolve this delicate matter...

Doubt in your mind alone but it is not based on any evidence so you have no ability to sell it to someone who has the power to release Jeremy.   

[mike tesko]

We have all now seen the truth in black and white, we have had sight of the firearms register, dealers register and firearms certificate entry, as well as a bill of sale concerning the 500 rounds of Eley ammunition sold and purchased by Ralph Bamber on the 30th November 1984 - the ammunition subject of that sale and purchase was ELEY .22 subsonic, not ELEY .22LR ammunition. The firearms dealer is required by law to accurately record the type of ammunition sold to a certificate holder in the dealers register and on the persons firearm certificate, at peril of losing his dealership status if he makes any errors, or fails to document the aforementioned records accurately...

Firstly, we had Skippy claiming that the ballistic expert Fletcher had wrongly described the batch of crime scene bullets all  being ELEY .22 LR bullet types, even though he describes some of the bullets as simply being .22 bullets, instead of .22LR bullets, and now Skippy is arguing that the dealer Radcliffe made the exact same mistake in describing the type of ammunition he sold to Ralph Bamber, as ELEY .22 subsonic rounds, instead of ELEY .22LR rounds? What a coincidence that the ballistic expert, Fletcher, and the gun dealer Radcliffe, should make the exact same mistake relating to the same type of ammunition?