13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...

[Patti]

One of the bullets grazed the back  of Nevill's left arm. It created a channel on the outside of the back of his arm because it brushed against it at high speed. If the bullet were more to the left it would have entered his arm.  If the bullet were more to the right it would have missed his arm entirely.  It was in a position which resulted in it brushing against his arm so grazing him.  A very small portion of the bullet entered his side.  Most of the bullet though ended up landing in the room. That bullet is DRH/5

The largest fragments from the 4 bullet wounds suffered by Nevill in the bedroom:
PV/2  (Shoulder)
DRH/5 (Arm/chest Graze wound) 
PV/10 (lip)         
PV/11 (jaw)

The fragments with the PV prefix were all removed from Nevill's body at autopsy.  DRH/5 was recovered in the master bedroom by the crime scene investigators.  Since this fragment never entered his body but rather just grazed him it wound up in the bedroom. 

I don't understand why people are having so much difficulty with this.

Because for the past 3 years we have been under the belief that Nevill had 8 shots to his poor body...What you are saying is that it was a graze and not an exit wound which is clearly diagrammed as being an exit wound along with a measurement of this wound which gives the same dimensions as other entry wounds.  What I am asking is, where does it mention an entry wound or grazes ext into the chest of Nevill Bamber in the pathology report?  The wound is clearly shown below the elbow, yet the notes state 4 inches above the elbow...I think the crime scene photograph is quite clear that the wound goes down towards the thinness of his arm and not the thicker part of his arm....

Maybe I am not graping what you are saying......Did Nevill have 7 shots or 8 shots? And where is the bullet that grazed his arm, for there is not entry wounds to the chest?   

[mike tesko]

Post where I suggested he only had 7 gun shot wounds.  I have been continuously posting the 8 wounds he suffered and even matched up the bullets to the wounds.  You are jumping to conclusions instead of reading what I have written.  I just matched up the 4 bullets again to the 4 wounds suffered in the bedroom and described the location of each wound.  I don't know how I could be more clear for you.

Hang on another minute, if Ralph was shot four times whilst he was in the bedroom, why is there not only any evidence that expiated blood was found there or anywhere along the route to the main kitchen downstairs, and why would Ralph pick up the kitchen phone with his uninjured right hand, grab the edge of the kitchen worktop with the bloodied fingers of his left hand without there being any evidence of expiated blood in existence anywhere at all in that particular vicinity, and most importantly of all, why did PI Bob Miller vacate four exhibit references (DRH/1, DRH/2, DRH/3 and DRH/4), so that four cartridge cases could be added to the main bedroom total?

[Patti]

How does one of the wounds being a graze wound result in only 7 bullet wounds?  A graze wound is a bullet wound it simply means the bullet didn't enter the body.

Read the autopsy report paragraph related to wound 8.  It describes it as a graze wound there was no exit wound. When a bullet enters the body it is an entrance wound.  That means it goes inside the skin.  Then a bullet that goes inside the body exits the body it does so through an exit wound.  A graze wound is a wound where a bullet scrapes against the body. it leaves a channel mark on the exterior of the body. The word exit on the diagram is merely to show where the bullet was at the point that it stopped grazing the arm.  It was not an actual exit wound which is why you don't see exit wound used in the autopsy.     

The bullet fragment fractured, a small part of it entered Nevill's side the remainder grazed his chest and ended up in the bedroom.  The fact it was in the bedroom establishes this is the room where the graze wound was delivered.  Nevill was definitely shot in the bedroom.

Apart from not understanding the difference between a graze wound and wound where a bullet actually enters then exits the body, you are ignoring the body location of wound 8.

Mike posted a photo of a wound to Nevill's right forearm. He claimed the wound was a bullet exit wound. Yet the autopsy report and diagram of Nevill's bullet wounds do not list any bullet wound to his right forearm. 

The wound you erroneously thought was an exit wound (8 ) was a wound above Nevill's left elbow. Even if it had been an exit wound that still would not have helped Mike's claims at all since it is not on the right side at all and not to any forearm at all it was to the left upper arm above the elbow.

The wound to Nevill's right forearm which Mike showed a photo of was an abrasion made by the corner of the butt of the rifle.   

I understand that people will have a problem with some technical issues like understanding what a graze wound is but the location of the wounds should not be confusing to anyone.  The diagrams are straight forward and so is the section of the autopsy with regard to location of wounds.

You are trying to defend Mike for naught.

8 bullets caused 8 gunshot wounds to Nevill.  7 of those bullets entered Nevill's body and remained there none of them exited.  1 of those bullets grazed Nevill's upper arm and then a small portion of the fragment entered his side while the largest part of the fragment landed in the bedroom and thus was recovered from the bedroom by the crime scene officers.

This is easy to understand if one actually makes an effort to do so.

Well if you check all the exit wounds from the diagrams and the bullets found it does not add up....

I am trying to make the effort Scip. I am not perfect and neither an expert. It takes a lot for things to sink in...

[scipio_usmc]

But if you are accurate then Nevill only received 7 shots and we have a bullet that missed its target. 

A graze wound is still considered a gunshot wound.  It was thus articulated as a gunshot wound.  It didn't miss him entirely.  Naturally the shooter didn't intend to merely graze him, the shooter almost missed him but did manage to "nick" him.  While most of the bullet only grazed him a small portion did enter him.  He had a small entrance wound at his side.  The majority of the bullet though only "nicked" him and thus ended up in the room.

If this bullet missed entirely then Vanezis would have said Nevill suffered 7 gunshot wounds and the bullet found in the bedroom would be a bullet that missed the victims entirely and there would be no way to know for sure who the bullet had been aimed at.  But since it grazed Nevill we know who it was aimed at and it technically qualifies as a gunshot wound.

Do you understand now?

 

[guest154]

I'm not misrepresenting- you are!

You posted a photo of a wound on Nevill's right forearm.  You told us that this was a bullet exit wound.  The diagram shows no exit wound to either of Nevill's forearms nor does the autopsy report mention any exit wounds to either of his forearms.  The wound in the photo you posted was not a bullet exit wound, it was a gouge to Nevill's right forearm that was made by the butt of the rifle as Nevill tried to block the blows.

The wound on the right forearm isn't an exit wound - I agree completely, I didn't think that the diagram showed that, but just to double check I looked at the autopy report and it also doesn't say it, which it indeed would.

Didn't a bullet enter and not exit?
Some people will claim anything - and then others are willing to back them up.

[Patti]

Exit noted on June´s diagram as well.
So are they grazings - or exit wounds as it says on her (and Nevill´s) diagram.
Why call a grazing wound "exit"?

That is what I would like to know..

[mike tesko]

I'm not misrepresenting- you are!

You posted a photo of a wound on Nevill's right forearm.  You told us that this was a bullet exit wound.  The diagram shows no exit wound to either of Nevill's forearms nor does the autopsy report mention any exit wounds to either of his forearms.  The wound in the photo you posted was not a bullet exit wound, it was a gouge to Nevill's right forearm that was made by the butt of the rifle as Nevill tried to block the blows.

Stop talking daft, the wound is clearly an exit wound, and that exit wound is illustrated in the diagram, on his left arm...

Be careful what you are saying, that hole you are digging is getting deeper by the moment, any time soon you are liable to tumble head first into it...

[Alias]

That is what I would like to know..

Glad it makes some sense what I am asking - even though to some I am "some people."

[susan]

Glad it makes some sense what I am asking - even though to some I am "some people."

Alias to me you are a lovely intelligent lady

[Patti]

A graze wound is still considered a gunshot wound.  It was thus articulated as a gunshot wound.  It didn't miss him entirely.  Naturally the shooter didn't intend to merely graze him, the shooter almost missed him but did manage to "nick" him.  While most of the bullet only grazed him a small portion did enter him.  He had a small entrance wound at his side.  The majority of the bullet though only "nicked" him and thus ended up in the room.

If this bullet missed entirely then Vanezis would have said Nevill suffered 7 gunshot wounds and the bullet found in the bedroom would be a bullet that missed the victims entirely and there would be no way to know for sure who the bullet had been aimed at.  But since it grazed Nevill we know who it was aimed at and it technically qualifies as a gunshot wound.

Do you understand now?

Yes I get that now, its just that I'd like to know where the bullet went for there are too many exit/grazed wounds to match the bullets found......June had 3 and Nevill had 1 so there should be 4 whole bullets found.....I can only account for 2 unless DRH 35 (twice) means two more bullets??

[Alias]

Alias to me you are a lovely intelligent lady

 

[guest154]

Alias to me you are a lovely intelligent lady

What do you make of the debate, Susan? What's your take on the wound?

[susan]

What do you make of the debate, Susan? What's your take on the wound?

Hahaha Mat you having a laugh I have not got a clue I am enjoying reading the posts but some are way above me but I am learning. Would be very unwise for me to say one way or another as I don't know

[mike tesko]

If this was / is an injury caused by the barrel of the gun, then - hang on another minute, where was the sound moderator at this time? I thought the moderator was still fitted to the rifle when the shooter attacked Ralph in the kitchen? Now, what is your response to that / this?

End of rifle barrel minus sound moderator, or en of Sound Moderator, now which are you saying caused the wound shown?

[susan]

What do you make of the debate, Susan? What's your take on the wound?
[/quote

Mat see what you are meaning now my post to Alias was nothing to do with bullets or wounds I just think she is a lovely intelligent lady and I think Scipio is a nice intelligent guy.