13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...

[scipio_usmc]

What an absolute baffoon you are, of course I have copies of both parts, what good would AP's firearms certificate be to the COLP investigators looking into whether or not AP's rifle, silencer and ammunition was used in the August 1985 shootings - your thicker than I thought you are. You are truly a bumbling baffoon who is basically full of shit. Now, fuck off and entertain yourself somewhere else, you abnoxious horrible piece of cow dung. You have only got half a brain, haven't you ever got anything useful or constructive to say, except the drivel that you kept releasing from that dishonest gob of yours. What a fucking idiot you are, pathetic abnoxious pea brain scumbag...

Post a copy of his firearm certificate then. Prove you have it and are not lying.  You can't because you know you are lying and so do we for the reason I mentioned when I told you straight out I was asking you a trick question and why it was a trick question.

AP didn't have a copy of his old certificate to provide to COLP:

   

Granted you don't remember all the evidence in this case that was released so don't always realize you are making up things that can be disproved but I TOLD YOU IN ADVANCE before you even made the claim that it could be disproved. I could have just sandbagged you and sprung it on you after daring you to lie.  Instead I gave you a heads up so you could avoid being caught in the lie and yet you still charged full speed ahead anyway...

 

 

[mike tesko]

You bungling baffoon, who do you think he had to surrender his old firearms certificate to? The postman? The milkman? The icecream van man?

I will give you a clue, he surrendered it to a particular department in the police force...

You have got a rodents brain...

[scipio_usmc]

You bungling baffoon, who do you think he had to surrender his old firearms certificate to? The postman? The milkman? The icecream van man?

I will give you a clue, he surrendered it to a particular department in the police force...

You have got a rodents brain...

He surrendered it years before the COLP investigation to the police station where they issued his new one and that station destroyed the old one they didn't retain it.

You have not even been able to provide a copy of Nevill's firearm certificate though that one the police actually had and potentially did provide to the defense.

AP's certificate was not provided to the police in the original investigation and wasn't available to be provided to the COLP investigators.

[mike tesko]

No, they didn't destroy it, that's you just making things up again...

[scipio_usmc]

No, they didn't destroy it, that's you just making things up again...

When they don't destroy documents they punch holes or other cancellation marks in them like passports and driver's licenses and hand them back to you along with the new document.  When they seize the documents and don't give them back they destroy them they don't place them in a file cabinet.

[mike tesko]

Essex police took a copy of AP's firearms certificate as part of the original investigation, when DCI Jones believed the relatives were trying to frame Jeremy for all 5 murders. At that time, the new version of AP's firearms certificate had not yet come into existence. Essex police took the aforementioned copy of his firearms certificate in September 1985, at the same time his sound moderator came into play, when Ann Eaton handed over to police the other Ralph Bamber silencer on the 11th September. AP's silencer had already been in police possession by that stage and was in fact the very same parker hale silencer inside which the crucial blood group evidence was later attributed to..,

[scipio_usmc]

Essex police took a copy of AP's firearms certificate as part of the original investigation, when DCI Jones believed the relatives were trying to frame Jeremy for all 5 murders. At that time, the new version of AP's firearms certificate had not yet come into existence. Essex police took the aforementioned copy of his firearms certificate in September 1985, at the same time his sound moderator came into play, when Ann Eaton handed over to police the other Ralph Bamber silencer on the 11th September. AP's silencer had already been in police possession by that stage and was in fact the very same parker hale silencer inside which the crucial blood group evidence was later attributed to..,

Taff Jones didn't think the family was trying to frame him, he didn't look at AP's guns or certificate.  AP makes clear in his COLP statement police didn't want to look at his weapons and Firearms certificate until 1991.

On top of simply making things up, it is silly that you keep making up such diametrically opposed things.  You on one hand say Taff Jones kept the moderator illegally in his possession allowing the family to provide a tampered one to police- thus allege he was in on the fraud yet at other times you claim he felt the family was trying to frame Jeremy and took actions to investigate their weapons. Such inconsistency tells us you are just throwing crap at the wall to see if any of it will stick.

If you actually had a copy of AP's old firearms certificate you would have posted it to prove me wrong instead of straining to find a way to pretend that police copied it in 1985. In the meantime you originally claimed COLP obtained a copy of it during their investigation but since that is not the case you say it was obtained in 1985 by Taff Jones. 

These games serve no purpose because not only can we see right through them, AP's gun was not at WHF at the time of the murders and even when it had been left at WHF it had no bolt so could not be used. It doesn't matter what ammunition he purchased since it wasn't there.

The ammunition used in the murders was assessed to be the same ammunition Nevill purchased of which more than 300 unfired rounds remained at WHF.

Anyone honest about the case, which includes Jeremy's own trial lawyers, admit that either Sheila was responsible or Jeremy.  There is no chance of third parties being responsible. Sheila would not have had access to other ammunition or weapons so other ammunition or weapons being used would not have been concealed by the prosecution it would have been used by the prosecution to further undermine the notion Sheila was responsible.  You don't seem to think the implications of your claims through fully when conjuring them up.

       

[mike tesko]

Taff Jones didn't think the family was trying to frame him, he didn't look at AP's guns or certificate.  AP makes clear in his COLP statement police didn't want to look at his weapons and Firearms certificate until 1991.
  this is not true, since Pargeter told the COLP investigators that shortly after the shootungs essex poluce bisited him and asked to look at his bruno rifle. AP told COLP that he was given the impression by the way those officers looked at his rifle, that they were checking to see whether or not his rifle was damaged...

On top of simply making things up, it is silly that you keep making up such diametrically opposed things.  You on one hand say Taff Jones kept the moderator illegally in his possession allowing the family to provide a tampered one to police- thus allege he was in on the fraud yet at other times you claim he felt the family was trying to frame Jeremy and took actions to investigate their weapons. Such inconsistency tells us you are just throwing crap at the wall to see if any of it will stick.

If you actually had a copy of AP's old firearms certificate you would have posted it to prove me wrong instead of straining to find a way to pretend that police copied it in 1985. In the meantime you originally claimed COLP obtained a copy of it during their investigation but since that is not the case you say it was obtained in 1985 by Taff Jones. 

These games serve no purpose because not only can we see right through them, AP's gun was not at WHF at the time of the murders and even when it had been left at WHF it had no bolt so could not be used. It doesn't matter what ammunition he purchased since it wasn't there.

The ammunition used in the murders was assessed to be the same ammunition Nevill purchased of which more than 300 unfired rounds remained at WHF.

Anyone honest about the case, which includes Jeremy's own trial lawyers, admit that either Sheila was responsible or Jeremy.  There is no chance of third parties being responsible. Sheila would not have had access to other ammunition or weapons so other ammunition or weapons being used would not have been concealed by the prosecution it would have been used by the prosecution to further undermine the notion Sheila was responsible.  You don't seem to think the implications of your claims through fully when conjuring them up.

     

[scipio_usmc]

this is not true, since Pargeter told the COLP investigators that shortly after the shootungs essex poluce bisited him and asked to look at his bruno rifle. AP told COLP that he was given the impression by the way those officers looked at his rifle, that they were checking to see whether or not his rifle was damaged...

He said that during his September 10 statement (given at his house) when he reiterated to police he didn't believe she could shoot herself with the moderator attached or load the magazine (because after the murders he had his wife try to load his and she couldn't) that police used his weapon with the moderator attached to try to see if Sheila could have shot herself with it.  He said he suspected that as they did such they used the opportunity to look over his weapon to see if it had any damage.

That is a far cry from taking his weapon away for examination and taking his Firearms certificate so they could copy it.  Moreover this was after Taff Jones was no longer in charge.  It also demonstrates he still had his moderator with his weapon in order for police to be able to try to recreate Sheila shooting herself with his weapon with the moderator attached.  This demolishes your nonsense about this moderator being the one turned in to police by the Eatons.

 
 

[lookout]

How odd that Essex police have not disclosed any close up photographs of every cartridge case in situ at the crime scene so that each of the original 25 cartridges can be accurately identified...

Were the bullets ever matched to the empty cartridges ?

[scipio_usmc]

Were the bullets ever matched to the empty cartridges ?

There is no such thing as matching a bullet as having come from a specific casing other than by circumstantial evidence.

Bullets and cases are matched to the gun they were fired from. Obviously when bullets and cases are tied to the same gun then the bullets are associated with those cases. When there are multiple cases and bullets fired in the same location there is no way to narrow down which case specifically was tied to each specific bullet.

Master Bedroom

Sheila
upper wound (chin) PV/19
lower wound (neck) PV/20
cases they were fired from: DRH/1 and 2.  There is no way to know specifically which case goes to which of these bullets.

Nevill
PV/10 (lip)         
PV/11 (jaw)
PV/2  (Shoulder)
DRH/5 (Arm/chest Graze wound)

June
PV/25 between eyes
PV/26 above right ear
DRH/35a lower neck (bullet exited into pillow)
DRH/35b forearm (bullet exited into pillow)
PV/24 right upper chest
PV/23 lower chest
DRH/9 knee (bullet exited into bed)

There is no way to know with specificity which of the 11 cases corresponds with which particular bullet fired into June and Nevill we just know the 11 bullets came from these 11 cases: DRH/3, 4, 6, 7a, 7b, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 43

Kitchen
PV/8 front of right ear/exit left ear but still in the body
PV/9 slightly above wound 1
PV/3 top of skull
PV/4 top of skull

The 4 cases associated with these shots are: DRH/14, 19, 20 and 41.

Twins Room
Daniel
PV/34
PV/35
PV/36
PV/29
DRH/36 (bullet exited and landed in bedroom)

Nicholas
Left cheek bone
Left of bridge of the nose
Outer aspect of right eyebrow (fragmented into small pieces no fragment from this bullet recovered by Vanezis)

The 8 cases associated with these shots are: DRH/16, 17, 18, 37, 38, 39a, 39b, and 40.

------

So it can only be narrowed down so much which case went to which bullet.

[mike tesko]

In the manufacturing process, preloaded cases are crimped together by unique crimping equipment so the crimping marks which are present upon the cartridge,  can be identified by matching the crimping marks on the case and bullet head. These crimping marks are unique to individual manufacturers, and from type of round against different types of round, produced by the same manufacturer...

[scipio_usmc]

In the manufacturing process, preloaded cases are crimped together by unique crimping equipment so the crimping marks which are present upon the cartridge,  can be identified by matching the crimping marks on the case and bullet head. These crimping marks are unique to individual manufacturers, and from type of round against different types of round, produced by the same manufacturer...

Crimping marks can't match a specific case to a specific bullet that came form it.  What I posted above is about as specific as one can get.  A group of cases matched to a group of wounds and that's it.

[mike tesko]

Crimping marks can't match a specific case to a specific bullet that came form it.  What I posted above is about as specific as one can get.  A group of cases matched to a group of wounds and that's it.

You don't know what you are talking about, you are not a firearms expert, your talking rubbish as usual...

[mike tesko]

Ds Jones returned to the scene from Jeremy's cottage at just after 11 am, and duly took possession of the sound moderator, and three other exhibits, all given the exhibit references of SBJ/1, SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4, by the exhibits officer. One nutter on the forum is still insisting that DS Jones did not return to whf on the morning of the shootings once he had gone to Jeremys cottage, but that nutter is simply out to cause mischief. According to the nutter, everyone who says anything which sheds a poor light on anything relied upon at trial to help convict Bamber as the killer, are all liars, but what does he know? He doesn't even agree with true facts like DS Jones returning back to the scene on the morning of 7th August 1985, but here is an extract taken from DS Jones typed witness statement, dated 3rd October 1985, page 3:- I then left DC Clark and Bamber and returned to white house farm. I then left white house farm and at about 11.15am the same day I went to 9 Head Street, Goldhanger, where I saw Bamber, DC Clark and a woman who I now know to be Ann Eaton"...