Author Topic: 13 bullet cases in m/bedroom, yet no follower plate mark found on them...  (Read 51592 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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Anyone remotely interested in the truth - go look at the two diagrams in the two General Examination records, dated, 13th August 1985, and the 25th September 1985, and tell me that these two diagrams are of the same parker hale silencer, or two different ones?

They are the same the person who drew the first one can draw better. The person drawing the second like me is hardly an artist...

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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4 parker hale silencers, accompanied by 4 sets of exhibit references (1) SBJ/1, (2) SJ/1, (3) DB/1,  and (4) AE/1, CAE/1, DRB/1...

It stands to reason that the police would need to identify the sound moderator in their possession st any one time. If their was only ever just the one parker hale silencer in police possession at any one time, then to whom did that silencer belong to?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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There are a different set of grooves around the circumference of the silencers tubing, when comparing the diagrams contained in lab' records, dated, 13th August 1985, and 25th September 1985 - this establishes that these were two entirely different parker hale silencers. In due course when the next police investigation gets under way, the people responsible for sketching these silencers will have to answer some very delicate and sensitive questions...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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There are a different set of grooves around the circumference of the silencers tubing, when comparing the diagrams contained in lab' records, dated, 13th August 1985, and 25th September 1985 - this establishes that these were two entirely different parker hale silencers. In due course when the next police investigation gets under way, the people responsible for sketching these silencers will have to answer some very delicate and sensitive questions...

No witness statement exists, no explanation given, regarding why two different parker hale silencers were sketched on these lab' records...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline notsure

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Mike its just not worth it!

straying from the facts will unsettle you, and will leave you open to a sucker punch. Realize that if any one of your statements is shown to be inaccurate, it devalues everything you've said to that point and beyond. To maintain a valid discussion and stay calm, stick to the facts.


Be aware that there are people who must always be right. In this case, the idea of an argument is futile and you need to change the subject or shut down any argument. This isn't about giving in to someone with a difficult personality or a stubborn will; it's about recognizing that your own time and mental health are more valuable than launching into proving such a person wrong. As far as that sort of person is concerned, he or she will never be wrong, so you really are wasting your time.


Offline scipio_usmc

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4 parker hale silencers, accompanied by 4 sets of exhibit references (1) SBJ/1, (2) SJ/1, (3) DB/1,  and (4) AE/1, CAE/1, DRB/1...

It stands to reason that the police would need to identify the sound moderator in their possession st any one time. If their was only ever just the one parker hale silencer in police possession at any one time, then to whom did that silencer belong to?

AE/1 was not a moderator it was a scope or something else but appears to have been the scope.

CAE/1 was a notecard

SJ/1 was never an exhibit it is simply made up by you.

There were only 3 references for moderators SBJ/1, DB/1 and DRB/1 and all 3 were the same moderator.  The change from DB/1 to DRB/1 is unassailable so that leaves you at most trying to argue SBJ/1 and DB/1(AKA DRB/1) were different moderators but you have no evidence of 2 moderators being collected, no evidence of 2 different moderators being reviewed side by side and no evidence to establish a moderator was marked DB/1 at the time it was sent to the lab in August or September...

Lying doesn't help you it just ruins your credibility if you are actually honest you have zilch to support your allegations and would have to admit you simply made them up from thin air. Since you made them up from thin air you make up lies about original Holab forms indicating on 8/30/85  moderator 23 labeled DB/1 was sent to the lab but there is no original documentation actually asserting such which is why you can't produce it.  You simply made it up to support your made up fables just as you made up SJ/1.

 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 06:45:PM by scipio_usmc »
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline notsure

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Scipio

there is no doubt you are an excellent debater. It is obvious you have studied this case very well.

However, your rebuttals are somewhat rude at times and I think it very unfair you slip in very cruel comments and jibes to Mike.

I am beginning to think you are enjoying trying to belittle Mike.

There is a name for that but it doesn't spring to mind at the moment.

Please learn to be kinder.

Offline mike tesko

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We then have a further conflict of evidence involving one of the parker hale silencers in Cooks possession on the 29th August 1985, and a parker hale silencer inspected on behalf of the defence in May 1986. I have already successfully established by reference to photographic evidence that the parker hale silencer on that occasion bore the exhibit mark SJ/1. Upon close inspection of the said photographs, it becomes apparent that the baffle plates of this particular silencer were downward facing. In comparison, at the time of the May 1986 examination, the baffle plates were upward facing (as confirmed by a diagramatic sketch)...

The question I pose, is this...

if the position of blood group activity as depicted in the May 1986 record is accurate, then blood group activity was detected in a number of consecutive baffle plates at the top end of the silencer. Yet, in Cooks photographs taken on 29th August 1985, show the removed baffles of SJ/1 downward facing, with the first 6 baffles separated, and no sign whatsoever of any blood, or any flake of blood in that part of the silencer. A further 11 baffle plates were not separated at this time, but in any event this section of 11 downward facing baffles were positioned at the bottom end of the silencer...

This suggests that different parker hale silencers were being examined on 29th August 1985, as opposed to the one being examined on the 28th May 1986...
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 07:03:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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We then have a further conflict of evidence involving one of the parker hale silencers in Cooks possession on the 29th August 1985, and a parker hale silencer inspected on behalf of the defence in May 1986. I have already successfully established by reference to photographic evidence that the parker hale silencer on that occasion bore the exhibit mark SJ/1. Upon close inspection of the said photographs, it becomes apparent that the baffle plates of this particular silencer were downward facing. In comparison, at the time of the May 1986 examination, the baffle plates were upward facing (as confirmed by a diagramatic sketch)...

The question I pose, is this...

if the position of blood group activity as depicted in the May 1986 record is accurate, then blood group activity was detected in a number of consecutive baffle plates at the top end of the silencer. Yet, in Cooks photographs taken on 29th August 1985, show the removed baffles of SJ/1 downward facing, with the first 6 baffles separated, and no sign whatsoever of any blood, or any flake of blood in that part of the silencer. A further 11 baffle plates were not separated at this time, but in any event this section of 11 downward facing baffles were positioned at the bottom end of the silencer...

This suggests that different parker hale silencers were being examined on 29th August 1985, as opposed to the one being examined on the 28th May 1986...

if there was only just the one parker hale silencer, how could the baffle plates be the wrong way around, on the two aforementioned occasions?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 07:06:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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Scipio

there is no doubt you are an excellent debater. It is obvious you have studied this case very well.

However, your rebuttals are somewhat rude at times and I think it very unfair you slip in very cruel comments and jibes to Mike.

I am beginning to think you are enjoying trying to belittle Mike.

There is a name for that but it doesn't spring to mind at the moment.

Please learn to be kinder.

There is no way to sugarcoat it when someone is lying and simply making things up.  Long ago I demonstrated Mike was wrong about there being an exhibit marked SJ/1 and showed that Cook's COLP statement doesn't state such.  Mike doubled down by making up that he has photos of the moderator with a tag marked SJ/1.  His claim he possesses them but refuses to release them is not credible.  Clearly COLP would have questioned witnesses regarding a label marked SJ/1 if one had actually existed so it is patently obvious he made up these photos just like he made up that Cook's witness statement asserts he marked it SJ/1.  At some point these things can no longer be characterized as reasonable mistakes.  When you progress to making up photos that support your claims things have escalated to the level of outright fraud. There is no kind way to put it.

Similarly, COLP made clear the only Holab form that ever referred to a moderator as 23 is one of the triplicate copies of the 8/13/85 submission.  Mike chose to ignore such and insists he has a form from 8/30/85 that shows the moderator was known on this date as lab number 23 police exhibit DB/1.  It is obvious Mike made up possessing such document because if it actually existed then Cook and others would have been asked by COLP about it. 

Mike still hasn't learned that making up things is pointless.  Most people ignore Mike.  He mainly posts in his own threads to himself and few people respond to him.  Those who do typically humor him simply.

It seems like he is tolerated simply because he runs the site so he has to be but people largely go on about their business as if he isn't here.  It is quite an odd dynamic.

He seems to be seeking attention with his stories but is not getting the attention he seeks so his efforts are backfiring. I don't understand why he continues full steam ahead with such instead of posting honestly in a way that brings him into the community of posters instead of essentially a pariah.  It makes no sense to me at all.         
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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We then have a further conflict of evidence involving one of the parker hale silencers in Cooks possession on the 29th August 1985, and a parker hale silencer inspected on behalf of the defence in May 1986. I have already successfully established by reference to photographic evidence that the parker hale silencer on that occasion bore the exhibit mark SJ/1. Upon close inspection of the said photographs, it becomes apparent that the baffle plates of this particular silencer were downward facing. In comparison, at the time of the May 1986 examination, the baffle plates were upward facing (as confirmed by a diagramatic sketch)...

The question I pose, is this...

if the position of blood group activity as depicted in the May 1986 record is accurate, then blood group activity was detected in a number of consecutive baffle plates at the top end of the silencer. Yet, in Cooks photographs taken on 29th August 1985, show the removed baffles of SJ/1 downward facing, with the first 6 baffles separated, and no sign whatsoever of any blood, or any flake of blood in that part of the silencer. A further 11 baffle plates were not separated at this time, but in any event this section of 11 downward facing baffles were positioned at the bottom end of the silencer...

This suggests that different parker hale silencers were being examined on 29th August 1985, as opposed to the one being examined on the 28th May 1986...

There is no photo of a SJ/1 this is simply made up by you along with the rest.   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jan

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"It seems like he is tolerated simply because he runs the site so he has to be but people largely go on about their business as if he isn't here.  It is quite an odd dynamic. "


No that is not the reason.

Mike has spent hours studying lots of documents because even though he is not in contact with JB he still considers him innocent . Which we all understand.


you also have apparently spent hours studying the case - apparently for no reason - because you know 100% he is guilty - so what on earth is the point trying to prove something which in your world has already been proven?

Offline scipio_usmc

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"It seems like he is tolerated simply because he runs the site so he has to be but people largely go on about their business as if he isn't here.  It is quite an odd dynamic. "


No that is not the reason.

Mike has spent hours studying lots of documents because even though he is not in contact with JB he still considers him innocent . Which we all understand.


you also have apparently spent hours studying the case - apparently for no reason - because you know 100% he is guilty - so what on earth is the point trying to prove something which in your world has already been proven?

The way to know whether he is guilty or the claims made by Jeremy supporters were true was to research the claims made by Jeremy supporters to see if the claims hold water.  It turns out they do not.  I like to argue and since there are people arguing he is innocent it is ripe for argument.

It would be nice if people would make some challenging arguments though, I am bored because of so much nonsense is often bandied about.

At best Jeremy supporters can try to use the documentary evidence to suggest there were 2 moderators in police possession.  It would have been impossible to keep the moderator and other evidence attributed to Boutflour with the DB prefix because David Bird already was using such prefix so for sure the items had to be changed.  These items were all changed from DB to DRB after the main testing took place already.

So the only real question is whether SBJ/1 and DB/1(renamed DRB/1) were the same or different.  Evidence establishes they were the same so Jeremy dropped this argument from the legal arena and basically it is just a propaganda point used by the campaign team.  If a Jeremy supporter wants to go through the motions then they should make it a debate about whether SBJ/1 and DB/1 are indeed the same as claimed.   

Instead Mike refuses to admit the DB to DRB change took place and also makes up that there was a SJ/1 moderator and claims there were thus 4 different moderators.  He falsely claims he saw a photo of a moderator bearing a SJ/1 label.  He also suggested he saw a document showing a moderator was known as serial number 23 DRB/1 on August 30.  Such nonsense pretty much makes the debate a joke and just serves to undermine any credibility in the real debate which should be over SBJ/1 and DB/1.  That real debate should feature the original paperwork to demonstrate what the label said at the time of submission. Paperwork amended later is proof the amendments were made later and that it was the same moderator.

Mike doesn't engage in an objective logical review of the evidence he decides what he wants to argue and then tries to twist the evidence to fit going so far as to make up evidence that doesn't exist. Mike uses having known JB and possessing documents to garner attention.  When someone keeps making things up though and distorting it makes people no longer trust them. 

Long ago while debating with mike I asked why no one else posts in his threads and why he doesn't post in other threads.  I was basically told people knew his claims were false and chose to demonstrate they knew his claims were false by failing to respond to them as opposed to my style of challenging them and thus giving him attention.  People also said they often couldn't comprehend what Mike was even suggesting.   

I have seen the same play out again and again.  A small handful like lookout repeat his allegations but most ignore them. When Mike says he has documents people want to see the documents they don't want to see what mike claims the documents state.  They offer to come physically help look through them or to scan them.

Mike's deceptions have achieved the opposite of what he hoped.  At some point he should wake up and smell the coffee and consider changing his habits. 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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Of course photographs of the parker hale silencer (SJ/1) exist, anyone who says they don't simply does not know what they are taljibg about...
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 09:02:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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On evening of 9th August 1985, Jones and Jones visited Jeremy at his cottage, and asked him if the silencer was fitted to the barrel of the gun the previous evening?

This establishes that police knew about the silencer long before 12th August when Peter Eaton handed another one of them over...
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 09:09:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...