Author Topic: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?  (Read 26188 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #225 on: March 06, 2015, 06:11:PM »




After all,your sort prefer slobs,they're easier to manipulate.A chap such as Jeremy,who was laid-back and arrogant,are your greatest enemies. They mustn't belittle the force-------oh no,or it's curtains for the victim. So he became the typical patsy. Musn't speak ill of the dead,but it was S Jones who was the instigator in all of this.


"Laid back and arrogant" ISN'T the face I would show if my family had been slaughtered. IMO, it smacks of "I don't give a toss."

Offline Alias

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #226 on: March 06, 2015, 06:12:PM »
How many here, guilters as well as pros, feel that something is missing in this case? I have this feeling - something is missing, we don´t have the whole picture.

The guilters use time, some a lot of time, to convince others that a man is guilty; a man who was found guilty and convicted almost thirty years ago. I have to conclude that they are not entirely convinced themselves when they are willing to use so much time on a case which is over and done and has the outcome they want. Jeremy has the strictest possible sentence in England, what more do people want?

Offline nugnug

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #227 on: March 06, 2015, 06:13:PM »

Certainly ditching the superior, gung-ho attitude in the face of five tragic murders might have helped.

i don't think his attitude was superior the police say that t about anybody who  dares to stand up them
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 06:27:PM by nugnug »

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #228 on: March 06, 2015, 06:13:PM »
It is not babble and please stop saying I am biased, just because you are incorrect on a point.  I seek the truth and that is that and the truth of the matter is that we do not know if draw-back could apply to that weapon/silencer/bullets.

I have pointed out to you that weapons with silencers fitted reduces the gases that cause blow-back. I also provided you with screen shots and video showing this.

Why you wont/can't take that on board is of no interest to me, it just tells me that it is you who is biased and can't take it when you lose a point. If I sad paper was black and I had 10 people who confirmed it was black you would find answers to make out I was either bias or telling an untruth.

More tests are needed to make a definitive conclusion, using the same type of weapon etc.  What is also crucial and it is something you have ignored completely is the fact that although it is possible Sheila had a contact shot it was not a contact shot to head and this reduces the blow-back effect even more so.

You lost on the argument long before you intended to destroy my adaptation on it.  :-\

How did I lose the argument?

You misrepresented Holly's opinion as expert opinion and then falsely claimed her conclusions were supported by the evidence she provided.

I have already demonstrated this is untrue.

She had no expert opinion that asserted moderators will prevent drawback from occurring because they reduce the gas output so much that drawback can't occur.  She made up that conclusion herself.  She took a source that said a WHOLE list of things can affect drawback without explaining how and what the impact would be and then claimed this proves drawback would not have been able to occur.  Her source didn't stand for the proposition she asserted.

That you don't like being called biased is too bad the fact of the matter is that you do not objectively and rationally evaluate claims and evidence.  Anything favorable to Jeremy you adopt.  You do so because you are biased in his favor.   There is a giant disconnect between you approach to this case and reality and that is why while people like you are busy saying he should be released the courts won't release him.

Holly hasn't presented anything that could be used to try to free Jeremy. She simply made up the notion that drawback would not have been able to get inside the moderator. There is no expert testimony to provide to the courts saying moderators can't get drawback inside.  The truth is that blood has been found in moderators by coroners and thus experts know for a fact blood gets inside.

People who are biased pretend things are how they wish things were and take solace in this.  I am a realist I don't care to pretend, I face things as they are and deal with the reality I am faced with.

So even if Jeremy were my brother I would not be busy trying to pretend that moderators can't result in drawback because such pretense AT BEST is propaganda fodder to fool ignorant members of the public it won't fool experts and can't be presented to a court because no expert is going to assert such and even if I found a dishonest one willing to do so the prosecution experts would demolish him.



Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline nugnug

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #229 on: March 06, 2015, 06:15:PM »
How many here, guilters as well as pros, feel that something is missing in this case? I have this feeling - something is missing, we don´t have the whole picture.

The guilters use time, some a lot of time, to convince others that a man is guilty; a man who was found guilty and convicted almost thirty years ago. I have to conclude that they are not entirely convinced themselves when they are willing to use so much time on a case which is over and done and has the outcome they want. Jeremy has the strictest possible sentence in England, what more do people want?

and a hell of a lot of effort.

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #230 on: March 06, 2015, 06:16:PM »
How many here, guilters as well as pros, feel that something is missing in this case? I have this feeling - something is missing, we don´t have the whole picture.

The guilters use time, some a lot of time, to convince others that a man is guilty; a man who was found guilty and convicted almost thirty years ago. I have to conclude that they are not entirely convinced themselves when they are willing to use so much time on a case which is over and done and has the outcome they want. Jeremy has the strictest possible sentence in England, what more do people want?

I think that's a bit of a sweeping statement.

It may apply to some though.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #231 on: March 06, 2015, 06:17:PM »
How many here, guilters as well as pros, feel that something is missing in this case? I have this feeling - something is missing, we don´t have the whole picture.

The guilters use time, some a lot of time, to convince others that a man is guilty; a man who was found guilty and convicted almost thirty years ago. I have to conclude that they are not entirely convinced themselves when they are willing to use so much time on a case which is over and done and has the outcome they want. Jeremy has the strictest possible sentence in England, what more do people want?

I am not trying to convince you and other innocenters to face reality.  Whenever errors are made by someone on either side I simply set the record straight.  It is up to the audience whether they want to believe the truth or choose to believe something else.

Most innocenters are scared to lay out their beliefs because they seem to know their beliefs are based on feelings and suspicions instead of evidence so can't articulate a well laid out position.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jane

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #232 on: March 06, 2015, 06:18:PM »
i don't his attitude was superior the police say that t about anybody who  dares to stand up them


Believe me, Nugs, it's not an expression I've pulled out of the ether and has little to do with just his attitude to the police. It's acquired superiority, learned over many years and an efficient way of putting down those one experiences as being of a lower class.

Offline nugnug

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #233 on: March 06, 2015, 06:23:PM »
who did he put down that he thought was of a lower class.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 06:26:PM by nugnug »

Offline Alias

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #234 on: March 06, 2015, 06:24:PM »
If you take a look at the pre-sentence photos of Jeremy in the archives, I think you will see that in most photos he does not look cocky, but rather sad and lost - and scared shitless.

Offline Jan

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #235 on: March 06, 2015, 06:24:PM »
I am not trying to convince you and other innocenters to face reality.  Whenever errors are made by someone on either side I simply set the record straight.  It is up to the audience whether they want to believe the truth or choose to believe something else.

Most innocenters are scared to lay out their beliefs because they seem to know their beliefs are based on feelings and suspicions instead of evidence so can't articulate a well laid out position.


I think you are incorrect on that assumption. There is one more reason why some do not totally lay their cards on the table , and that is because it is easy to defend the guilty position because the person is in jail , but to try and defend a child killer even if only 1% of your information gathered has placed a small doubt in your mind is extremely difficult. What person would want to defend a person that had killed children? That is why it takes much more effort to dispute the evidence. But to assume that no person has ever been found guilty of a crime when innocent is also a folly. It happens.

Offline nugnug

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #236 on: March 06, 2015, 06:30:PM »
If you take a look at the pre-sentence photos of Jeremy in the archives, I think you will see that in most photos he does not look cocky, but rather sad and lost - and scared shitless.

in other words he looks like anyone who was about to face trial for murder would do.

Offline Jane

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #237 on: March 06, 2015, 06:31:PM »
who did he put down that he thought was of a lower class.


I don't need to have been there to recognize the attitude, Nugs. The effect it had on others would be down to how they felt about themselves.

Offline lookout

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #238 on: March 06, 2015, 06:32:PM »

"Laid back and arrogant" ISN'T the face I would show if my family had been slaughtered. IMO, it smacks of "I don't give a toss."





Not at all. The interpretation can also mean that he won't be brow-beaten by a couple of " know-alls ".

Offline lookout

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Re: What Makes Supporters Believe Jeremy is Innocent?
« Reply #239 on: March 06, 2015, 06:35:PM »
i don't think his attitude was superior the police say that t about anybody who  dares to stand up them





That's just it,nugs. The police DON'T like to be answered back,nor will they give you time to speak. They know it all.!!