Order of Sheila's first 10/11 shots.

[Adam]

I already despatched this nonsense the other day I guess you enjoy being embarrassed.

1) Police outside were not asleep they were carefully listening for any sound and any sight they could so just because people can sleep through sounds doesn't mean attentive police would not hear the sounds

2) The window was open so the sound would travel to them if shots were fired.  There is a big difference between sound traveling through an open window and 2 thick walls that are separated by open space.

I admire you're tenacity.

You were so confident of Jeremy's possible innocence, you explained how Sheila could have done it. Something only one other supporter has dared to do.

When that was ripped apart you submitted a totally revamped application. Which was also ripped apart.

Now you are still arguing how Jeremy could not have committed the massacre. Although I submitted a straight forward summary.

Jan, you have a rival. 

[David1819]

The farm workers knew where the phones usually were. Furthermore the telephone worker who replaced the broken phones a month before noted where the phones were.  Shortly before the murders another guy took the cordless phone away and noted the phone normally in the bedroom was in the kitchen so this proves it was moved before the murders.

All Jeremy would have to do is leave the kitchen phone off the hook disabling all other lines! he would have worked that one out.

If he did move the phones to prevent a call. afterwards he would have placed the phone back upstairs

Otherwise he is a calculating genius and a fool that incriminates himself at the same time

this don't add up

[lookout]

so therefore it would be possible for sc to shoot herself whilst the police were outside and no one would hear a thing.

Indeedy,seeing as it was a muffled contact shot as well.

[Adam]

Why an earth would a bedroom phone be plugged into the kitchen phone socket ? The kitchen phone in perfect working order so obviously removed to make way for the bedroom phone.

There is no reason.

[David1819]

Why an earth would a bedroom phone be plugged into the kitchen phone socket ? The kitchen phone in perfect working order so obviously removed to make way for the bedroom phone.

There is no reason.

Was the kitchen phone unplugged? I a read was that it was under magazines and got a dial tone when off the hook

[scipio_usmc]

All Jeremy would have to do is leave the kitchen phone off the hook disabling all other lines! he would have worked that one out.

If he did move the phones to prevent a call. afterwards he would have placed the phone back upstairs

Otherwise he is a calculating genius and a fool that incriminates himself at the same time

this don't add up

Taking a phone off the hook would not disable the other phones until it is off for a sufficient amount of time for the dialtone to go away. 

In the meantime he had no way to know for sure if they would wake up as he entered the window and call police before he even got far inside.   Taking the phone from the bedroom a day before the murders and saying it was needed to replace the broken kitchen phone was his clever way of doing it.

Moreover after killing Nevill int he kitchen he wanted to make it look like Nevill called from the kitchen then Sheila killed him.  He didn't anticipate figuring out Nevill was shot upstairs before he went to the kitchen.  If he put the phone back int he bedroom then Nevill going to the kitchen makes less sense unless he was chasing Jeremy after Jeremy ran out of bullets- which Jeremy didn't want anyone to figure out.

The kitchen phone was replaced with the bedroom phone shortly before the murders.  Jeremy says it was because the kitchen phone was broken.  The kitchen phone wasn't broken though it was working when it was found hidden.  It wasn't sent away to be repaired it was hidden simply.   When found Jeremy lied and said it was an extra phone though she recognizes it as the kitchen phone. 

Who would have removed a perfectly good phone to replace it with the bedroom phone and why would Jeremy lie and say it was just an extra phone?  There are few good ways to try to reconcile it other than Jeremy doing so in anticipation of the murders.

   

[scipio_usmc]

Was the kitchen phone unplugged? I a read was that it was under magazines and got a dial tone when off the hook

It was unplugged when hidden. After it was found the housekeeper or secretary (I forget which) tested it and found it working and upon asking Jeremy about it he claimed the phone was just an extra though she recognized it as the regular kitchen phone.

[Adam]

Was the kitchen phone unplugged? I a read was that it was under magazines and got a dial tone when off the hook

Well unless there were two phone sockets, the kitchen phone would be unplugged. The bedroom phone in the kitchen phone socket.

If both phones were plugged into different phone sockets in the kitchen, that would be even weirder.

[Adam]

Taking a phone off the hook would not disable the other phones until it is off for a sufficient amount of time for the dialtone to go away. 

In the meantime he had no way to know for sure if they would wake up as he entered the window and call police before he even got far inside.   Taking the phone from the bedroom a day before the murders and saying it was needed to replace the broken kitchen phone was his clever way of doing it.

Moreover after killing Nevill int he kitchen he wanted to make it look like Nevill called from the kitchen then Sheila killed him.  He didn't anticipate figuring out Nevill was shot upstairs before he went to the kitchen.  If he put the phone back int he bedroom then Nevill going to the kitchen makes less sense unless he was chasing Jeremy after Jeremy ran out of bullets- which Jeremy didn't want anyone to figure out.

The kitchen phone was replaced with the bedroom phone shortly before the murders.  Jeremy says it was because the kitchen phone was broken.  The kitchen phone wasn't broken though it was working when it was found hidden.  It wasn't sent away to be repaired it was hidden simply.   When found Jeremy lied and said it was an extra phone though she recognizes it as the kitchen phone. 

Who would have removed a perfectly good phone to replace it with the bedroom phone and why would Jeremy lie and say it was just an extra phone?  There are few good ways to try to reconcile it other than Jeremy doing so in anticipation of the murders.

 

I have read there was only one phone line at WHF. Taking the kitchen phone off the hook disables all phones. That's the way it works where I live as well.

Jeremy playing musical phones before the massacre is quite suspicious. Although his last supper at WHF may have also been to check on phone locations.

It's still slightly risky as Neville or June may have put the bedroom phone upstairs that very night.

[Adam]

If either Neville or June heard an intruder, they may not ring the police. It's surely too late. They would wake each other up, and  wake Sheila and all stick together.

Jeremy would have got a shock when they all shouted 'surprise'.

[David1819]

I have read there was only one phone line at WHF. Taking the kitchen phone off the hook disables all phones. That's the way it works where I live as well.

Same here! all Jeremy would have to do is just that

Jeremy playing musical phones before the massacre is quite suspicious. Although his last supper at WHF may have also been to check on phone locations.

No need for him to play musical phones for reasons above.

[scipio_usmc]

No because its not an actual silencer that would reduce the sound. Those old parker hale type silencers do not slow down ammunition it would only be useful on an air-rifle. Any fancy specialist silencers that you may be able to get in the states have never been legal here.

More made up nonsense.  If the moderator were of no value then the murder weapon would not be sold threaded to accept a moderator.  As already explained the moderator reduces the noise caused by the gases and the sonic crack was absent because of the subsonic ammunition so the register is lower than it would be if a moderator had not been used there was a reason to use it.

1. According to Boutflour he found the Silencer in its manufactures box neatly packed up in a bag

That is not good for Jeremy.  The gun was normally used with the moderator attached and was normally stored int he closet with the moderator attached.  That is how AP found it a little over week before the murders when he used it.   The killer obviously removed it after use and stuck it in the box to try to conceal it had been used.  This is a very bad point to bring up if you want to aid Jeremy.

2. Police searched the cupboard beforehand and never found the silencer

Police did a quick look through the cupboard and didn't bother to take out the ammunition etc because they saw no reason to. 

3. Modern DNA tests in 1999 found no traces of blood but found human DNA not blood based.

There is no such thing as a DNA test that tests for blood.  They did tests for blood that turned up negative all that proves is that no blood remained int he moderator in 1999 it was all removed in 1985 and 1986 by the experts.  This in no way helps refute the blood removed in 1985 and 1986 was deposited during the murders and was Sheila's.

4. Had Jeremy used it he would not keep asking for it to be DNA tested

Thats not true many guilty people have asked for DNA tests that ended up confirming their guilt.  When stuck in prison for life or many years there is nothing to lose in requesting a DNA test even when guilty there is always hope to try to spin the results somehow.  In fact, as you keep pointing out Jeremy and his lawyers knew prior to requesting the DNA tests that no blood was remaining int he moderator.  There was thus no reason to request the DNA tests except with the intention of distorting what the results mean. 

Since he knew there was no blood left what would he have to fear from a DNA test?  Any DNA found would not be blood based but rather the result of contamination so what danger could it pose?

Had Jeremy committed the crime with the silencer. Since people give him so much credit for staging planning ect would he have not just placed the silencer next to Shelia as if Shelia herself realised she would find it difficult to kill herself with it attached? why go and pack it away all neat and tidy and the police don't even find it somehow.

He packed it away and then told the lie he left the gun out without the moderator attached figuring no one would ever investigate the moderator and figure out it had been used at all.

Using the Silencer indoors would make the rifle very cumbersome and tricky in a confined area. Had he targeted Neville and June first I'm very confident they would have been found dead in the bed like the Twins. How could you attack two sleeping elderly people with a fully loaded semi automatic rifle and fail?
I think the twins went first Neville June woke as a result regardless if Shelia or Jeremy done it

It wouldn't make it cumbersome. In the meantime your argument that Nevill and June would have died in bed if he targeted them first makes no sense at all.  June didn't die in bed because he was inept at his targeting.  If he was a better shot she would have died in bed.  She would not have been in bed to shoot if he first shot the boys. He had to let Nevill get out of bed before killing him.  Killing him in bed would demolish his planned lie about Nevill calling him to come over.  Who would believe Nevill told Jeremy to come over then jumped back in bed and his there waiting for Jeremy to come over and was thus killed in bed?

[scipio_usmc]

I have read there was only one phone line at WHF. Taking the kitchen phone off the hook disables all phones. That's the way it works where I live as well.

Jeremy playing musical phones before the massacre is quite suspicious. Although his last supper at WHF may have also been to check on phone locations.

It's still slightly risky as Neville or June may have put the bedroom phone upstairs that very night.

There were 3 phone jacks, 1 in the kitchen, 1 in the master bedroom and 1 in the upstairs office.  In order to have 2 phones in the kitchen they used a splitter adapter. When the cordless phone was removed from the kitchen and taken away the adapter was taken with it.  SO from that point on only 1 phone could be plugged in in the kitchen.

Taking a phone off the hook would not automatically disable the other extensions.   The phone had to be off the hook for an extended period of time for the dialtone to go away and at that point none of the phones could be used until it was hung up. 

     

[guest2181]

Same here! all Jeremy would have to do is just that

No need for him to play musical phones for reasons above.

 

Hi David, there are a few aspects to this which may be interpreted in different ways, none of which are conclusive.

Usually there were four phones in the house, one in the master bedroom, one in the upstairs office and two in the kitchen (one of which was a cordless phone which was away for repair).

The two kitchen phones were connected through the wall and into a twin adapter into a single socket located in the cupboard opposite the ground floor shower room.

On the night of the murders, the office phone was in it's usual place, the cordless kitchen phone was away for repair, the corded kitchen phone was disconnected and located beneath some magazines in the kitchen and finally the bedroom phone was in the kitchen plugged in, in place of the usual corded kitchen phone.

The conundrum which causes the most speculation,  is why was the bedroom phone located in the kitchen, in place of the usual kitchen phone, which was found to be in perfect working order. The usual kitchen phone was also, seemingly hidden (depending on your view).

There are a whole host of possible reasons/theories as to why the phones were located as they were, some completely innocent, others extremely suspicious.

It's quite possible that the phones were swapped about before the murders, or staged afterwards.

[tyler]

Hi David, there are a few aspects to this which may be interpreted in different ways, none of which are conclusive.

Usually there were four phones in the house, one in the master bedroom, one in the upstairs office and two in the kitchen (one of which was a cordless phone which was away for repair).

The two kitchen phones were connected through the wall and into a twin adapter into a single socket located in the cupboard opposite the ground floor shower room.

On the night of the murders, the office phone was in it's usual place, the cordless kitchen phone was away for repair, the corded kitchen phone was disconnected and located beneath some magazines in the kitchen and finally the bedroom phone was in the kitchen plugged in, in place of the usual corded kitchen phone.

The conundrum which causes the most speculation,  is why was the bedroom phone located in the kitchen, in place of the usual kitchen phone, which was found to be in perfect working order. The usual kitchen phone was also, seemingly hidden (depending on your view).

There are a whole host of possible reasons/theories as to why the phones were located as they were, some completely innocent, others extremely suspicious.

It's quite possible that the phones were swapped about before the murders, or staged afterwards.

Hartley,the phone found under the magazines,was it a push button model do you know?