Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 185210 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online gringo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3044
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3255 on: August 11, 2024, 02:08:AM »
You do overegg the pudding. Russian casualties thus far are 579,490. That's young men sent to their deaths by an ageing despot on the flimsiest of pretexts, talent wasted and families left to cope with their bereavement. So what if Ukraine had joined NATO and the European Union? What difference would it have made? I would like to know.

The Minsk accords were ambiguous in nature. Zelensky was not about to dismember his country in the same way Czechoslovakia was in 1938. As for future referendums, these cannot be held at the point of a gun. The OSCE would play a part, once all Russian troops were withdrawn from the country. Of course that's not going to happen now, at least not whilst Putin is in power.
    Where are your "Russian casualty" figures from? The rest of what you write has been debunked time and again. NATO are defeated, Steve, and the full consequences of that are yet to play out-but they will. I am incredulous that there are still people who have yet to recognise that UK/US/NATO/EU et al are the aggressors in conflicts around the world. The support or at best "both siding" the ongoing Gazan genocide by western governments/media has been a real "mask off" moment that the entire world has seen and cannot ignore. Nobody with any understanding of world politics/trade/diplomacy believes that Russia, China or anyone other than the western Imperialists have aggressive intent towards any country. Even the majority of populations in the west no longer believe the obvious lies of the western media and government. The majority of the world view Putin as the greatest statesman in the world today. Outside of the bubble of the "golden billion" of the west, and perhaps a silent majority within that golden billion in truth, Putin is respected as a great statesman. Western leaders are seen as weak puppets.
    It is becoming ever more obvious to anyone interested in truth and peace that Western so called leaders do not serve their nations or peoples best interests and are clearly serving some other masters. Putin, Xi make decisions that serve the best interests of their nations/people. Whether westerners agree with the domestic policies of a Chinese or Russian leader is irrelevant and ill informed anyway. None of us understand enough of the everyday culture and ways of Russia/China to have a relevant opinion on their politics. It is for them to decide. Both of those countries are vast and contain many different cultures/languages. All that should matter to us about any nation is their foreign policy.
    The entire world has a ringside view of western/NATO countries foreign policies right now. It is obvious to any objective observers which countries have the most aggressive "foreign policy". You need to take the blinkers off, Steve. There is a whole unravelling coming, its best to get ahead of it and at least be mentally prepared.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13096
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3256 on: August 11, 2024, 05:43:PM »
Day 900 of the 10 day special military operation

Russian reinforcements fail to push back Ukrainian incursion

https://www.ft.com/content/7dcb3009-ec9a-417a-b2e1-01c26c9349a0

Fleeing Russians tell of panic and terror after Ukraine invasion of Kursk

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/08/11/fleeing-russians-tell-of-panic-and-terror-ukraine-invasion/
 
"This war will last about three or four days" - Aleksandr Lukashenko 🤡

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 19174
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3257 on: August 11, 2024, 08:37:PM »
    Where are your "Russian casualty" figures from? The rest of what you write has been debunked time and again. NATO are defeated, Steve, and the full consequences of that are yet to play out-but they will. I am incredulous that there are still people who have yet to recognise that UK/US/NATO/EU et al are the aggressors in conflicts around the world. The support or at best "both siding" the ongoing Gazan genocide by western governments/media has been a real "mask off" moment that the entire world has seen and cannot ignore. Nobody with any understanding of world politics/trade/diplomacy believes that Russia, China or anyone other than the western Imperialists have aggressive intent towards any country. Even the majority of populations in the west no longer believe the obvious lies of the western media and government. The majority of the world view Putin as the greatest statesman in the world today. Outside of the bubble of the "golden billion" of the west, and perhaps a silent majority within that golden billion in truth, Putin is respected as a great statesman. Western leaders are seen as weak puppets.
    It is becoming ever more obvious to anyone interested in truth and peace that Western so called leaders do not serve their nations or peoples best interests and are clearly serving some other masters. Putin, Xi make decisions that serve the best interests of their nations/people. Whether westerners agree with the domestic policies of a Chinese or Russian leader is irrelevant and ill informed anyway. None of us understand enough of the everyday culture and ways of Russia/China to have a relevant opinion on their politics. It is for them to decide. Both of those countries are vast and contain many different cultures/languages. All that should matter to us about any nation is their foreign policy.
    The entire world has a ringside view of western/NATO countries foreign policies right now. It is obvious to any objective observers which countries have the most aggressive "foreign policy". You need to take the blinkers off, Steve. There is a whole unravelling coming, its best to get ahead of it and at least be mentally prepared.
The casualty figures are here: https://war.ukraine.ua/faq/what-are-the-russian-death-toll-and-other-losses-in-ukraine/

Muslim countries in the area should take those Gazan civilians who wish to leave, not close borders as Egypt has done.

Ludicrous to hold Xi and Putin up as paragons of virtue. What has Xi done with the Uighurs? Why are there no free trade unions in China? Why does Putin have his political opponents killed?

Online gringo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3044
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3258 on: August 12, 2024, 01:25:AM »
The casualty figures are here: https://war.ukraine.ua/faq/what-are-the-russian-death-toll-and-other-losses-in-ukraine/

Muslim countries in the area should take those Gazan civilians who wish to leave, not close borders as Egypt has done.

Ludicrous to hold Xi and Putin up as paragons of virtue. What has Xi done with the Uighurs? Why are there no free trade unions in China? Why does Putin have his political opponents killed?
    Your source is the general staff of the Ukraine Armed Forces> You are a fool who believes whatever is convenient to your narrative. It is a self evidently false figure. Muslim countries already take the most Palestinian refugees (Jordan, Lebanon). You should have more to say about the genocidaires causing the refugees.
     Your raising of the Uighurs shows your gullibility and blindness. You believe in a genocide with no evidence (Uyghurs) and disbelieve one that is live-streamed all over social media daily, replete with genocidal statements by any number of Israeli officials. It isn't a credible position.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 19174
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3259 on: August 12, 2024, 02:50:AM »
    Your source is the general staff of the Ukraine Armed Forces> You are a fool who believes whatever is convenient to your narrative. It is a self evidently false figure. Muslim countries already take the most Palestinian refugees (Jordan, Lebanon). You should have more to say about the genocidaires causing the refugees.
     Your raising of the Uighurs shows your gullibility and blindness. You believe in a genocide with no evidence (Uyghurs) and disbelieve one that is live-streamed all over social media daily, replete with genocidal statements by any number of Israeli officials. It isn't a credible position.
I didn't say the Chinese were committing genocide, but they did establish re-education camps for the Uighurs. Can you imagine the uproar in any Western democracy if the same policy was implemented?

Is this website acceptable to you? https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240503-france-estimates-that-150-000-russian-soldiers-have-been-killed-in-the-ukraine-war

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13096
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3260 on: August 17, 2024, 10:55:PM »
Day 909 of the 10 day special military operation.

Ukraine controls 82 Russian settlements, opens administrative office in occupied Kursk

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240815-%F0%9F%94%B4-live-russia-to-evacuate-thousands-more-from-kursk-region-as-ukrainian-army-advances

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16989
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3261 on: August 18, 2024, 12:56:PM »
Ukrain seem to be running amok in Kursk.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13096
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3262 on: August 23, 2024, 10:35:PM »
Ukrain seem to be running amok in Kursk.

Day 912 of the 10 day special military operation. Face-to-face with Russians in Ukrainian-occupied Kursk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoBmEyb0q_c

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 19174
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3263 on: August 27, 2024, 03:38:PM »
More shocking stories emerge in the brutal, totalitarian, pariah state, which is Putin's Russia. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj35lk4x86yo

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13096
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3264 on: September 11, 2024, 11:21:PM »
Why did Russia invade Ukraine in February 2022? This video dives into the complex motives behind Putin's decision to launch a full-scale invasion, despite the immense cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diBkosaizxA

This is a very good video and worth watching.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2024, 11:21:PM by David1819 »

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 19174
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3265 on: September 13, 2024, 06:03:PM »
Why did Russia invade Ukraine in February 2022? This video dives into the complex motives behind Putin's decision to launch a full-scale invasion, despite the immense cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diBkosaizxA

This is a very good video and worth watching.
Yes, it's a very good video. But any incursion into Russian territory is a mistake, I feel.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13096
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3266 on: October 08, 2024, 09:46:AM »
Now that Chat GPT4 has been updated I asked it to explain the legality of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This was the response.


"The legality of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which began in February 2022, has been widely condemned by the international community as a violation of international law, particularly the United Nations (UN) Charter and other key principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity. To fully understand the legality of the invasion, we need to examine it through the lens of international law, the UN Charter, and Russia's justifications for its actions.

1. Violation of the UN Charter
The UN Charter, signed in 1945, is one of the most important international treaties governing the use of force between nations. Two key articles of the UN Charter are relevant here:

Article 2(4): This article prohibits the use of force by one state against another, except in cases of self-defense or with the authorization of the UN Security Council. It is one of the fundamental norms of international law and ensures that states respect each other's territorial integrity and political independence.

Violation: Russia’s full-scale military invasion of Ukraine in 2022 constitutes a clear violation of Article 2(4), as it involved a direct use of armed force against a sovereign state without Ukraine’s consent.
Article 51: This article allows for the right of individual or collective self-defense in the event of an armed attack. A state can defend itself against aggression but must notify the UN Security Council of any actions taken in self-defense.

Russian Claim of Self-Defense: Russia has claimed that its invasion of Ukraine is an act of self-defense, arguing that NATO’s expansion to the east, especially Ukraine’s potential future membership, poses a threat to Russia’s security. However, this justification does not meet the criteria for self-defense under Article 51, as there was no immediate armed attack against Russia by Ukraine.
2. Humanitarian Intervention Argument
Russia has also justified its actions by claiming a responsibility to protect ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in Ukraine, particularly in the Donbas region, which includes Donetsk and Luhansk. Russia alleges that the Ukrainian government committed genocide or serious human rights violations against these groups.

No Legal Basis for Intervention: Humanitarian intervention, where a state uses military force to stop widespread human rights abuses in another state, is a controversial and highly restricted doctrine under international law. Most legal scholars agree that this doctrine does not provide a legal basis for Russia’s actions in Ukraine. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) has rejected Russia’s claims of genocide in Ukraine, and there has been no credible evidence to support the claim of widespread atrocities that would justify intervention.

Genocide Claims Rejected: Ukraine brought a case against Russia at the ICJ, accusing Russia of misusing the Genocide Convention as a pretext for invasion. In March 2022, the ICJ ordered Russia to suspend its military operations, highlighting that Russia’s justification of "genocide prevention" was unfounded.

3. Recognition of Donetsk and Luhansk Republics
Prior to launching the full-scale invasion, Russia recognized the independence of the self-proclaimed "Donetsk People’s Republic" and "Luhansk People’s Republic" in Eastern Ukraine. Russia used this recognition as partial justification for its military action, claiming it was acting in defense of these entities.

Violation of Sovereignty: The recognition of these territories as independent states is considered illegal under international law. Ukraine’s territorial integrity, including the Donbas region, has been repeatedly affirmed by the international community, including the UN General Assembly. By recognizing these breakaway republics and intervening militarily, Russia violated Ukraine’s sovereignty.
4. Crime of Aggression
Under international law, the invasion of Ukraine could constitute the crime of aggression, which is one of the four core crimes under the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC), along with war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide. The crime of aggression involves the use of armed force by a state against the sovereignty, territorial integrity, or political independence of another state without justification.

Aggression Defined: According to the ICC’s legal definition, aggression includes invasions, military occupations, and annexations of another state’s territory by force. Russia's military actions in Ukraine clearly fall under this category. Although Russia is not a party to the ICC’s Rome Statute, and thus cannot be directly prosecuted for aggression by the ICC, this does not mean the invasion is legally permissible.
5. Violation of International Humanitarian Law
In addition to the violation of the UN Charter, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine raises serious concerns about violations of international humanitarian law (the laws of war), particularly the Geneva Conventions. Reports of indiscriminate attacks on civilians, the targeting of civilian infrastructure, and other war crimes have been documented since the invasion began.

War Crimes: The Geneva Conventions and Additional Protocols regulate the conduct of hostilities and the protection of civilians in armed conflict. There are credible accusations against Russian forces of committing war crimes, including attacks on civilian targets and the use of prohibited weapons.
6. International Reactions and Legal Actions
The international community, including the UN General Assembly, NATO, EU, and other organizations, have overwhelmingly condemned Russia’s invasion as illegal. In March 2022, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution demanding that Russia immediately cease its military operations and withdraw from Ukraine. The resolution was supported by 141 countries, highlighting the global rejection of Russia's actions.

Sanctions and Diplomatic Isolation: Many states have imposed wide-ranging economic sanctions on Russia in response to the invasion. Russia’s actions have also led to its diplomatic isolation on the international stage.

International Criminal Court (ICC): The ICC has launched investigations into war crimes and crimes against humanity allegedly committed during the invasion. While Russia is not a member of the ICC, individuals, including Russian military and political leaders, could still be held accountable under international criminal law.

Conclusion
In summary, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is widely considered a violation of international law, particularly the UN Charter’s prohibition on the use of force. Russia’s justifications, such as self-defense against NATO, humanitarian intervention, and the recognition of Donetsk and Luhansk, do not meet the legal standards necessary to justify the invasion. The conflict has also raised concerns about serious violations of international humanitarian law, including the commission of war crimes. The international community continues to pursue legal and diplomatic actions to hold Russia accountable for its actions."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also asked it to explain the legality of the 2003 Iraq invasion. The response below.


"The 2003 Iraq War, also known as the Second Gulf War, raised significant questions about its legality under international law. The conflict, led by the United States and the United Kingdom, began with the invasion of Iraq on March 20, 2003, with the stated goals of disarming Iraq of weapons of mass destruction (WMDs), ending Saddam Hussein's regime, and combating terrorism. The legality of this invasion is heavily debated, centering on two key issues: compliance with international law and the authority of the United Nations (UN).

1. UN Charter and the Prohibition of Force
The United Nations Charter, which governs international law, prohibits the use of force by one state against another, with two major exceptions:

Self-defense (Article 51 of the UN Charter): A state can defend itself against an armed attack.
UN Security Council authorization (Chapter VII): The Security Council can authorize military action to maintain or restore international peace and security.
In the case of the 2003 Iraq War, the U.S. and U.K. did not claim self-defense, as Iraq had not attacked them. Instead, they argued that military action was justified due to Iraq's non-compliance with earlier UN Security Council resolutions, particularly Resolution 1441 (2002), which dealt with Iraq's failure to disarm.

2. UN Security Council Resolutions
Resolution 1441: This resolution, passed unanimously in November 2002, gave Iraq "a final opportunity" to comply with its disarmament obligations after a history of violating ceasefire terms from the Gulf War in 1991. It warned of "serious consequences" if Iraq did not cooperate fully with weapons inspections.
However, Resolution 1441 did not explicitly authorize the use of force. It required the Security Council to reconvene and assess Iraq's compliance before determining further action. The U.S. and U.K. argued that Iraq's lack of cooperation with weapons inspectors amounted to a "material breach" of previous resolutions and justified force. They cited previous UN resolutions (such as Resolution 678 (1990) and Resolution 687 (1991)) as providing a legal basis for military action.
Many legal experts and Security Council members rejected this interpretation. France, Russia, and China, all permanent members of the Security Council, insisted that only the Council itself could authorize force, and they opposed unilateral military action without explicit approval. Efforts to secure a second resolution that would specifically authorize military intervention failed, leading the U.S. and U.K. to proceed with the invasion without further UN backing.

3. Arguments for Legality
The U.S. and U.K. governments advanced the following justifications for the war's legality:

Enforcement of existing UN resolutions: They claimed Iraq had repeatedly violated previous Security Council resolutions concerning disarmament and that Resolution 1441 reaffirmed the legal authority to use force from earlier resolutions.
Preventive self-defense against WMDs: The Bush administration argued that Iraq's possession of WMDs and potential to supply these weapons to terrorists justified preemptive action to protect international peace and security.
Regime change: While not explicitly framed as a legal justification, the goal of overthrowing Saddam Hussein’s regime was cited as necessary for ending Iraq’s threat to the region.
4. Arguments Against Legality
Opponents of the war, including many international legal scholars and countries, made several arguments:

Lack of explicit Security Council authorization: They argued that Resolution 1441 did not authorize force and that further approval was necessary from the Security Council before military action could be justified.
Preemption as a violation of international law: The concept of "preventive war" or preemptive self-defense was seen as inconsistent with the UN Charter, which only allows force in cases of actual armed attack or imminent threat. There was no evidence that Iraq was planning an imminent attack on the U.S. or its allies.
Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) claims were false: After the invasion, no stockpiles of WMDs were found in Iraq, undermining the primary rationale for the war.
Undermining international law and the UN: Many critics argued that unilateral military action without broad international support or Security Council authorization undermined the global system for maintaining peace and security, setting a dangerous precedent.
5. Post-War Assessments
In the aftermath of the war, inquiries in both the U.S. (the Iraq Study Group) and the U.K. (the Chilcot Inquiry) concluded that the intelligence used to justify the war was flawed. The Chilcot Report, published in 2016, found that the U.K.’s decision to go to war was based on inadequate intelligence, that peaceful options for disarmament had not been exhausted, and that the legal basis for military action was "far from satisfactory."

Conclusion: The Legality of the Iraq War
The legality of the 2003 Iraq War remains highly contested. The U.S. and U.K. governments maintained that their actions were legal under existing Security Council resolutions. However, many in the international community, including prominent legal scholars and nations, viewed the war as illegal under international law due to the lack of explicit UN authorization and the questionable nature of the preemptive self-defense doctrine. Ultimately, the war highlighted deep divisions over the interpretation of international law and the authority of the United Nations in matters of war and peace."

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 19174
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3267 on: October 08, 2024, 09:36:PM »
I didn't support the Iraq war in 2003. It set a precedent for Putin, sadly.

Online gringo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3044
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3268 on: October 09, 2024, 03:57:AM »
I didn't support the Iraq war in 2003. It set a precedent for Putin, sadly.
   Why didn't you support the 2003 Iraq war, Steve?

Online gringo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3044
Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3269 on: October 09, 2024, 04:06:AM »
     David, what do you imagine Chat GPT4 is? And do you think it is capable to answer the questions that you posed using its own supposed intelligence?