Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 363772 times)

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Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2880 on: June 29, 2023, 09:04:AM »

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2881 on: July 03, 2023, 09:51:PM »

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2882 on: July 03, 2023, 09:57:PM »
Russia's invasion of Ukraine continues to bring unspeakable horrors, every day. Deeply worrying news about deliberate attacks against civilians, including children, have become a cruel daily reminder of the bloodshed that Putin brought back to our continent. Evidence of countless international crimes committed by Russia is piling up. The new international prosecution centre will play a key role in making sure that the perpetrators are brought to justice, including for the crime of aggression. We will leave no stone unturned to hold Putin and his henchmen accountable.”

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_3606

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2883 on: July 04, 2023, 06:26:AM »
A Ukrainian Patriot Missile Crew Shot Down Five Russian Aircraft In Two Minutes—And Possibly Forced The Kremlin To Rethink Its Tactics


https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/07/03/a-ukrainian-patriot-missile-crew-shot-down-five-russian-aircraft-in-two-minutes-and-possibly-forced-the-kremlin-to-rethink-its-tactics/

Offline Roch

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2884 on: July 05, 2023, 01:18:PM »
Jenin/Ukraine

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2885 on: July 05, 2023, 03:40:PM »
Jenin/Ukraine

Since 1948 till present, the Arab Israeli war has resulted in the death of 92,000 Arabs and 25,000 Israelis.

In less than two years the Russian invasion of Ukraine has resulted in an estimate 350,000 deaths so far.

The order of magnitude between the two conflicts makes this a rather silly comparison.

Both Israel and Russia claim territory for security reasons, however the latter is 78 times the size of the former. Israel has valid security concerns, while Russia sees any obstacle to its irredentism and imperialist agenda as a "security concern".
« Last Edit: July 05, 2023, 04:00:PM by David1819 »

Offline Roch

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2886 on: July 05, 2023, 03:54:PM »
Since 1948 till present, the Arab Israeli war has resulted in the death of 92,000 Arabs and 25,000 Israelis.

In less than two year the Russian invasion of Ukraine has resulted in an estimate 350,000 deaths so far.

The order of magnitude between the two conflicts makes this a rather silly comparison.

Both Israel and Russia claim territory for security reasons, however the latter is 78 times the size of the former. Israel has valid security concerns, while Russia sees any obstacle to its irredentism and imperialist agenda as a "security concern".

Not sure about those figures. But I think Israel is the cause of its own security concerns. It's so used to behaving monstrously, that it has forgotten how to behave in any other way. I'm sure bulldozing homes, confiscating farms and spitting on people of other denominations is going to result in Israel feeling more secure.


Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2887 on: July 05, 2023, 04:00:PM »
   The hypocrisy and selective outrage of the supporters of NATO/US/UK is nauseating. Their pretence at outrage over unproven and disputed "war crimes" by Russia, Syria or whoever the current "Enemy du jour" happens to be, contrasts sharply with their indifference towards proven and undisputed war crimes by NATO/US/UK.
    If they were not outraged and demanding war crimes trials after the Abu Ghraib prison torture pictures were released, if they are indifferent to the current deliberate and blatant targeting of civilians by Israel now(in a refugee camp >:( ) and were equally silent when the illegal renditioning and torture of detainees at black sites and Guantanamo Bay was revealed-then I call bullshit on their pretence of shock and horror of "alleged" war crimes of Russia and others. Especially when the accusations are coming from the perpetrators, and their propagandists, who committed the above and more.
    Proven US/NATO war crimes on the most colossal scale since the end of WW2 are unmatched in their brutality and frequency. Chemical and biological weapons use in Vietnam/Korea, Deaths squads in Latin America, the list is endless(all acknowledged true) and the deaths uncountable and unfathomable.
    Since 9/11 alone;
The U.S. post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, and Pakistan have taken a tremendous human toll on those countries. As of September 2021, an estimated 387,073 civilians in these countries have died violent deaths as a result of the wars. As of May 2023, an estimated 3.6-3.7 million people have died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones. The total death toll in these war zones could be at least 4.5-4.6 million and counting, though the precise mortality figure remains unknown. Civilian deaths have also resulted from U.S. post-9/11 military operations in Somalia and other countries. -
from https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians

   That is just "violent deaths" since 9/11. Deaths such as the estimated 500,000 Iraqis who died because of sanctions on medicines and was regarded as "a price worth paying" according to Madeleine Albright, US Secretary of state at the time would not be included in "violent deaths". Nor would the 100,000's of Yemeni civilian deaths from starvation after deliberate bombing of civilian infrastructure by UK/US/Saudi coalition be included in "violent deaths". Outrage and demanding of war crimes trials by the perpetrators of the above is not to be taken seriously.
   The false outrage over unverified reports and youtube footage from people who are completely indifferent to proven Western crimes which are by magnitudes greater renders any point they are trying to make, without merit.
   


   
 

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2888 on: July 05, 2023, 04:15:PM »
Not sure about those figures. But I think Israel is the cause of its own security concerns. It's so used to behaving monstrously, that it has forgotten how to behave in any other way. I'm sure bulldozing homes, confiscating farms and spitting on people of other denominations is going to result in Israel feeling more secure.

And I am sure the three invasions, two Intifadas and supporting Iraqi scud missile strikes made the Palestinians seem like friendly and tolerant people the Israelis would feel safe being ruled by with no hard feelings.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2889 on: July 05, 2023, 04:27:PM »
And I am sure the three invasions, two Intifadas and supporting Iraqi scud missile strikes made the Palestinians seem like friendly and tolerant people the Israelis would feel safe being ruled by with no hard feelings.
   You can't invade your own territory, it is called resistance. The invasion and original crime is the Nakba.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2890 on: July 05, 2023, 04:38:PM »
   
The U.S. post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, and Pakistan have taken a tremendous human toll on those countries. As of September 2021, an estimated 387,073 civilians in these countries have died violent deaths as a result of the wars. As of May 2023, an estimated 3.6-3.7 million people have died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones. The total death toll in these war zones could be at least 4.5-4.6 million and counting, though the precise mortality figure remains unknown. Civilian deaths have also resulted from U.S. post-9/11 military operations in Somalia and other countries. -
from https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians

   That is just "violent deaths" since 9/11. Deaths such as the estimated 500,000 Iraqis who died because of sanctions on medicines and was regarded as "a price worth paying" according to Madeleine Albright, US Secretary of state at the time would not be included in "violent deaths". Nor would the 100,000's of Yemeni civilian deaths from starvation after deliberate bombing of civilian infrastructure by UK/US/Saudi coalition be included in "violent deaths". Outrage and demanding of war crimes trials by the perpetrators of the above is not to be taken seriously.
   The false outrage over unverified reports and youtube footage from people who are completely indifferent to proven Western crimes which are by magnitudes greater renders any point they are trying to make, without merit.
   



What a load of bullshit. The population deaths rates in Iraq and Afghanistan do not show any alternation in trends post 9/11 at all.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRQ/iraq/death-rate

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AFG/afghanistan/death-rate

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2891 on: July 05, 2023, 05:32:PM »
      What do you imagine that your death rate link proves? It is a non answer. So be more clear, David. Can you give an estimate of post 9/11 deaths caused by NATO/US/UK "military interventions". If what I printed and linked is "bullshit", then what is your estimate of civilian death caused by NATO at al?

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2892 on: July 05, 2023, 05:40:PM »
What a load of bullshit. The population deaths rates in Iraq and Afghanistan do not show any alternation in trends post 9/11 at all.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRQ/iraq/death-rate

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AFG/afghanistan/death-rate
    What happened to Yemen, Syria and Pakistan in your non answer anyway? The figures were for civilian deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria and Pakistan. At least non answer the right question. I take back that your reply is a non answer-it is actually only 2/5 or 40% of a non answer.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2893 on: July 05, 2023, 06:05:PM »
      What do you imagine that your death rate link proves? It is a non answer. So be more clear, David. Can you give an estimate of post 9/11 deaths caused by NATO/US/UK "military interventions". If what I printed and linked is "bullshit", then what is your estimate of civilian death caused by NATO at al?
   I expect that David will rectify his non answer by removing the second n and giving no answer.
    To give an honest assessment of civilian deaths caused by US/UK/NATO would expose the idiocy and hypocrisy of the "outraged by Russian/Syrian alleged war crimes mob".
    Any "lowball" figure attempted is immediately open to instant debunking and ridicule. It is why no figure will be even attempted.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2894 on: July 05, 2023, 09:42:PM »
      What do you imagine that your death rate link proves?

It proves that 9/11 has not caused the numbers of death claimed. In fact the death rate in Afghanistan actually fell soon after 9/11.

To find an already volatile region with impoverished populations where the life expectancy is low then claim 9/11 caused lots of indirect/direct deaths there after when the death rate shows no such thing, shows the author of that BS you posted in grossly attributing ordinary and non related deaths to the 9/11 attacks.

If you look at the Iraq chart. The death rate went up during the Iraq/Iran war thus we can infer that conflict caused many deaths. If the claims you posted about post 9/11 deaths was accurate, it would be reflected in the data, yet it is not. Because it is not true.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2023, 09:43:PM by David1819 »